LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.28 (04) [E]

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L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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28 February 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.28 (02) [E/LS]

Re: Schots en scheef. That was an interesting etymology Ron.
I never thought in terms of "ijsschots" meaning anything but just that,
a piece of ice floe that has broken off the larger ice mass. Under the 
influence of wind and water movement these "ijsschotsen" start drifting and 
land on each other in a sort of higgledypiggeldy way ( Dutch: kruien ). My 
etymological dictionary gives "schos" as an older variety of "schots" and 
"skos" as the Frisian word. Does that have anything to do with the German 
"schussen" as in skiing down the mountain at breakneck speed?
It is interesting that the Dutch have a separate word for this interaction 
of ice, wind, and water. "Kruien" would have a cognate in "to crowd" in 
English. (Just thinking of it gives me the shivers!) Jacqueline

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.28 (02) [E/LS]

Luc, Ron,

you wrote about about _kuddel-muddel_ etc:

> > I suppose the Low Saxon nominal equivalent is _kuddel-muddel_
> > (<Kuddelmuddel>), which is used in certain Missingsch varieties as
> > well.  I assume the second part is related to English "muddle."

and:

> > Could muddle and mill (moel) be related here?
>
> I doubt it.  Middle English supposedly got it from Middle Dutch _moddelen_
> 'to mess with mud', but I'm wondering if the source is really Middle Saxon
> _muddel(e)n_ with the same meaning and the extense 'to make a mess', 'to
> muddle'.

In our LS we still use _mud_ [mud] in its meaning very close to E: 'mud', 
but also ('rüm-)_muddeln_, meaning E: 'to make a mess'.

_Kuddel_ standing alone is a Missingsch form for G:'Karl', E:'Charles'.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.28 (02) [E/LS]

Btw: "schots en scheef" is not a West Flemish expression, but it's
absolutely normal and much used Standard Dutch.

Ingmar

>From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.26 (01) [E]
>
>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Etymology
>> Luc:
>>
>>> E: "oblique, leaning over" = Western Flemish  "schots en scheef"
>>> " wistercapeêle",
>>> meaning disorderly and chaotic"(E: higgledypiggledy)
>>
>> Can it also mean 'ramshackle'?
>>
>> What's the etymology of this _schots_?
>>
>> I suppose the Low Saxon nominal equivalent is _kuddel-muddel_
>> (<Kuddelmuddel>), which is used in certain Missingsch varieties as
>> well.  I assume the second part is related to English "muddle."  In
>> North Saxon, a messy, chaotic place or event may also be called
>> _moel_ (<Mœhl>, <Möhl>), literally "mill".  (Does this mean that
>> old-time mills where messy and topsy-turvy?  Perhaps, what with all
>> the farmers brining in their bags of grain and the miller not
>> keeping track of which bag belongs to whom ... also all the
>> cheating that reportedly went on in many mills ...)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Reinhard/Ron
>
>Ramshackle is the word i was looking for! (didn't know it) We use the
>expression almost always when talking about old or poorlooking
>buildings.
>-Kijk noa dad huus, 't stoa heêl schots en scheêf, 't is ol plak en
>stak.
>
>The etymology of this "schots" is mentionned unknown in the "Vandale"
>dictionnary .
>The meaning differs from strange, to weird, to arrogant, to funny .
>"Scheef" means crooked.
>
>Could muddle and mill (moel) be related here?
>-V: mulder is  a miller
>-V: mul = dust / grinded corn of lower quality / something that is
>broken to pieces, smashed or shattered.
>-V: mulhoek = a place where dust is gathered together, and where the
>broom stands.
>-V:mullegewin = wages of a miller (if the wages are paid in nature
>(flour) it is called "multer"
>-V:mullen = dust flying around
>
>groetjes,
>Luc Vanbrabant
>Oekene

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From: Felix Hülsey <felix.huelsey at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L: Etymology

Hallo all,

re the etymology of Hamburg and Hamm:

There is an area in the western Münsterland and the Netherlands which is
called "Hamaland". According to the Wikipedia article (see below), it is
derived from the chamavi.

Greetings from Cologne
Felix Hülsey

Quote from Wikipedia:

Das Hamaland ist eine Landschaft im westlichen Münsterland und den
angrenzenden Niederlanden. Es umfasst die Gegend um die Städte Vreden im
Kreis Borken und Winterswijk (NL).

Zur Zeit der Merowinger umfasste das Hamaland, das nach dem germanischen
Stamm der Chamaven benannt war, neben dem westlichen Münsterland noch
Gebiete an Rhein und Ijssel, zwischen Elten (Stadt Emmerich am Rhein,
Kreis Kleve) und Deventer (NL). Im 9. und 10. Jahrhundert etablierte
sich hier die Grafschaft Hamaland, die aber im 11. Jahrhundert geteilt
wurde und in anderen Territorien aufging.

Das regionale Bewusstsein für das Hamaland ist nur schwach ausgeprägt,
erlebt aber in den letzten Jahren eine Renaissance, auch durch Gründung
einer Euregio, die aber räumlich weit über das (heutige) Hamaland hinaus
geht und zum Beispiel auch Enschede, Bocholt und Dülmen umfasst. Die
Bezeichnung Hamaland findet sich etwa in Sportvereinen, Musik-Clubs und
regionalen Unternehmen sowie bei der Hamaland-Route, einer
ausgeschilderten Rundstrecke für Touren mit dem Pkw. Die
Hamaland-Identität pflegt unter anderem das Hamaland-Museum in Vreden,
ein Heimatmuseum des Kreises Borken.

Von "http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamaland" 

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