LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.01.20 (03) [E]

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20 January 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Henry Pijffers <henry at softdevelcoop.org>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.01.19 (02) [E]

Heiko Evermann schreev:
>
> the Low Saxon Wikipedia again led to a question:
>
> what is Low Saxon for "appel juice"?
> * Appelsapp or
> * Appelsaft
 >
Overhere in NL it's sap.

> Neuber ("Wöhrner Wöör") writes "Das alte ND. Wort Sapp ist bereits seit 
> 200
> Jahren verdrängt."
>
Perhaps in northern Germany, but not here, so it's still alive.

> What is your recommendation? Accept the death of a word and accept the
> import or stand against the tide and use the old-fashioned word?
>
Use the old word. What's the use of a dictionary if you're putting words
in a different language in it?

Henry

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

I say _sap_ (_Sapp_) for 'juice' in Low Saxon (e.g., _Appelsapp_ 'apple 
juice', _Zitroonsapp_ 'lemon juice', _Appelsiensapp_ 'orange juice', 
_Flederbeersapp_ 'elderberry juice').  I didn't know that was so unusual or 
archaic, although I did know that many people use German-derived _Saft_.  I 
think it's a dialect and sociolect issue.  _Sap_ may be obsolete in that 
particular dialect ("Wöhrnersch") and other dialects, but I don't think it's 
obsolete everywhere, even if we don't talk about the dialects of the 
Netherlands.

Also, I think the position of _Sapp_ has been weakened in large cities and 
in communities that serve them, ironically many of them fruit-growing 
communities, such as Olland and Veerlannen at Hamburg's periphery.  This 
goes hand in hand with German loans having replaced the native names of 
certain types of fruit; e.g., _Kars(beer)_ > _Kirsch_ 'cherry', _Peersch_ > 
_(P)Firsich_ 'peach' (so e.g. _Kars(beer)sapp_ > _Kirschsaft_ 'cherry 
juice').  Maybe this came about by way of suppliers adapting to the 
terminology of their customers.

However, even within larger cities you will get different variants, in part 
because people bring in their rural dialects, and they tend to hang around 
for a couple of generations or so.

(Obviously, _sap_/_Sapp_ and _Saft_ are related to English "sap," although 
the meaning is somewhat different.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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