LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.17 (02) [E]

Mon Jul 17 16:28:33 UTC 2006

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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L O W L A N D S - L * 17 July 2006 * Volume 02
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From: 'Karl-Heinz Lorenz' <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (05) [E]

Ron:

> Could there be a "French" link?

I think cheese making in Europa (as wine making) is a pretty Romanic thing. Not
for nothing France and Italy have the most sorts/varieties.

> By that I mean not only French-speaking
> areas
> but also those in which related languages are spoken, such as Picard and
> Walloon.
> There's been a lot of cheese making going on there. Perhaps it was
> passed on
> >from there to Holland via what is now Belgium, and the Dutch were clever
> and
> industrious (or desperate) enough to say, "Good deal! We have plenty of
> cows
> already."

I think this is very good explanation and industrious and calculating as the
Dutch are they probably made a cost-income ratio and decided that "SchnittkÃƒÂ¤se"
(in a relatively short time you can produce a lot matching the common taste)
would make the most profit.

What about cheese making in England and Scotland? Did that
> come in
> with the Norman occupation?

Maybe even earlier in ancient Roman times? By the Romans? By Romance influenced
Celts?

What I'm talking about is hard cheese. Soft
> cheeses, to be eaten fairly fresh, were made in the Western Slavonic
> areas,
> including what is now Eastern Germany. Maybe hard cheese making didn't
> reach
> farther east than the Netherlands, and most of Northern Germany was a type
> of no
> man's land between soft cheeses and hard cheeses. And he keeps guessing
> wildly.
>
> Or ... the whole thing could be a Dutch racket, a conspiracy to leave
> North
> Germans caseically disadvantaged. Oh, yes, yes! That must be it.

But what about "GeheimratskÃƒÂ¤se"? Seems to me a (Northern-) German variant of Edamer.

Karl-Heinz

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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (03) [E/LS]

Concerning the question of food in the Low Saxon speaking areas, which includes,
of course, most of Sleswig-Holsten, I think I can supply some information:

Traditionally neither cheese nor beer was traditionally consumed a lot in SH,
meat was a matter of wealth and status, the richer the people were, the more meat
they would consume. The ordinary Geest-Buur would actually not consume a lot of
meat, instead, according to a description of the Rendsborg-District from 1923,
"Bookweetengruet", (Buckwheat-Pudding) and dark bread were present in almost all
meals, vegetables and fruits such as pears were cooked or eaten with milk and
supplied as a main- or side dishes, meat was another side-dish, often in the
evening but usually only in the form of "Speck" (beacon) because it was precious.
Very common were also pancakes in all kinds of variations made from buckwheat or
ordinary wheat baked with berries, apples etc. Milk was the main drink, beer
drunken occasionally from the "Kroes", just as cheese was only eaten
occasionally, in general "Koem"(spirits) was more popular as an alcoholic drink
and the cheese was probably similar to what can still be bought under the name
"Wilster-Masch-Kees" (cheese from the Wilster Marshlands). Industrialization made
meat more readily available and cheaper, since it also had to do with status
people started consuming it a lot more, in particular in the last 50 years, and,
while the work patterns changed (more office work and machinery) it led to
problems such as "overweight" etc. Cheese has been imported from Holland already
since the beginning of the twentieth century (or even earlier) due to improved
transport infrarstructure, my mother always bought cheese with her grandma from a
Dutchman from Groningen who regularily drove around SH and selling Dutch cheese,
the conversation was, of course, in Low Saxon though my mother remembers him as
"having a bit of a strange accent". It is indeed a little bit strange why cheese
didn't play such a big role in our local food whereas in neighbouring in Denmark,
the Netherlands and also Britain it usually did, it might have to do with meat
becoming more readily available through industrialization and being attached to
status while cheese wasn't. The beer brewed and drunken in nowadays in SH is
almost exclusively lager (Pilsener) but that must have been different in the past
because Pilsener is a recently imported method for beer-brewing, I can only
assume that originally the beer was more similar to ales still found in the UK,
the Niederrhein-area (East-Limburg), Limburg, Wallonie, Brabant and Flanders.
Those of you who have ever tried some of those delicious local ales in the
Ardennes would probably find it hard to believe that Ales could ever become
unpopular among beer drinkers in certain regions. In general I believe our
tradional food is quite similar to what has been eaten in the northern parts of
the Netherlands and Denmark, unsurprisingly since the crops being grown are
almost identical and the agricultural methods, traditions and housing are similar.  

----------

From: Andrys Onsman <andrys.onsman at calt.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (05) [E]

To: Gabriele
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables'
From: Andrys

>What about the Dutch part of Frisia? Do they have cheeses, while the East
>Frisians do not?
>
>Gabriele Kahn
>
We have Frisian clove cheese, served with Beerenburg to tourists in
Amsterdam. There is also Beemster cheese which comes from West Friesland
(now in North Holland). We have Griene Tsiis (although I've never had
it) of "Butter brea en griene tsiis ..." fame. And we have the world
famous Frico cheese factory, which makes all kind of cheeses for export.
I don't know if there are any truly "indigenous" cheeses in Fryslan though.

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