LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.24 (08) [A/E]

Tue Jul 25 01:11:34 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24 July 2006 * Volume 08
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From: 'Elsie Zinsser' <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.24 (06) [A/E]

Dag Vlad, en almal,

I will have to shake my brain for Afrikaans diminutive verb forms. Do they
not give any examples in your
resource?

The following could be uttered:

Gaan werkies nou maar, die dag is nog lank.
Slapie my kindjie, slaapies maar sag. (from a lullaby/poem)
Liefie die kat later en gaan bad nou eers.

Is dit duideliker? Ek wens ek ken Russies dan kon ons vergelyk!

Groete,
Elsie Zinsser

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From: 'Marcel Bas' <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.24 (06) [A/E]

Beste Vlad,

Ty sprosil:

>QUOT:It was a remark on your "Who said Russian was a powerful language in terms
>of diminutives? Well, here's its rival, Afrikaans." UNQUOT
>and further:
>QUOT: Afrikaans beats many other languages not because it has diminutive suffixes
>as such for quite many languages have them as you have rightly pointed out, but
>by the fact that it allows its speakers to add diminutives to verbs which is
>sooooo cool and I bet it gives its speakers a dimension totally unknown in many
>other languages.UNQUOT
>
>Elsie, Ria, Mark, Marcel--Is dit WAAR?
>Nerens het ek van die verkleinvorme van werkwoorde gehoor...
>Vek zhivi--vek uchis'; durakom pomresh. Ja, Ron?

Vlad, dit laat my nou 'n bietjie twyfel. Ek kan nie regtig onthou of daar in
Afrikaans verkleinde werkwoorde is nie. Daar is egter verkleinde byvoeglike
naamwoorde wat oÃ«nskynlik ook in meervoudsvorm gesÃª word.

Soos: 'fyntjies' (baie fyn, soos in "jy moet maar fyntjies proe-proe");  
'sagkens' (dit is eintlik 'n gefossilisseerde woord met 'n diminutiefmorfeem van
hoeka se dae! Dit beteken 'gently', soos in "dit laat die pyn sagkens verdwyn" );
'liefies'  (bekoorlik lief, teder, ens.)
'netjies' 

Jy kry dit ook in Nederlands (liefjes/liefies, fijntjes, zachtjes, netjes, enz.),
maar in Afrikaans word dit selfs konsekwent vervoeg: "'n liefiese gesig", "'n
netjiese kamer". In Nederlands klink 'een liefjese vrouw', en 'een netjese kamer'
geforseer.

Ek hou van sekere _dubbele_ verkleinmorfeme in Afrikaans: meisie - meisietjie:
Rooikappie - Rooikappietjie (met dank aan ou Tolla van der Merwe), en ander
woorde waarmee in hul oorspronklike vorm (Rooikappie, meisie)  nie noodwendig
iets kleins bedoel nie, maar wat tog weereens verklein kan word.

Het Russisch is ook een kampioen daarin, hoor!  Wat dacht je van het Russische
bijvoegelijke naamwoord grijs / 'grijsje'? "seryj volk (= grijze wolf) tegenover
"seren'kij volchok" (kleintje wolfje).

Vlad, is dit in het Russisch ook nog een heel creatieve manier van bijvoegelijke
naamwoorden veranderen?

Ik ken dit geval van de 'grijsje wolfje' van een van de meest bijzondere,
ongetwijfeld oudste kinderliedjes in Europa:

Baiu baiushki baiu,
ne lozhisya na kraiu,
pridÃ«t seren'kij volchok
i ukusit za bochok"

Lig niet aan de rand (van het bed!),  een grijsje wolfje zal komen en je zij bijten.

Bijzonder, hÃ¨? Ik denk dat veel Russische kindertjes niet in slaap konden vallen
vanwege de inhoud van dit kinderliedje. Chto ty dumaesh'?

Groeten,

Marcel.

http://roepstem.net

Groeten, Marcel.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Yiddish is also a contender when it comes to top generosity of diminutive
allocation.  In many cases -- like in Slavonic languages, Dutch and Afrikaans --
there is an element of socially appropriate style, often "softening" the tone. 
For example, I just got myself a DVD copy of one of the last Yiddish movies made
in Warsaw before the Holocaust: ï¬® ×‘×¨×™×°×¢×œ×¢ ×“×¢×¨ ×žï¬®×ž×¢×Ÿ _A brivele der mamen_ by the
great Joseph Green (Yoysef Grinberg, 1900-1996).  Translating it as "A Letter to
Mother/Mom" doesn't quite capture it, and German _Ein Brieflein an die Mutter_
sounds silly, _Ein Brieflein der Mutter_ silly, archaic and most misleading,
since what is meant to be dative would come across as genitive ("A Letter of/from
Mother").  Without the diminutive form of the word for "letter" (ï¬® ×‘×¨×™×° ×“×¢×¨ ×žï¬®×ž×¢×Ÿ
_A briv der mamen_) it would sound very serious, and I would assume this was a
letter from the authorities or from a creditor or a letter containing bad news. 
Since it is a letter from child to mother, the only appropriate form is
diminutive.  Apparently the title comes from a Yiddish song:

   Mayn kind, mayn trayst,
   Du forst avek iber den vayte yamen.
   Oy, mayn kind, Å¡rayb geÅ¡vind
   A brivele der mamen, a brivele der mamen!

   My child, my solace,
   You're going away across the vast sea.
   Oh, my child, do write soon
   A letter to mother/mom, a letter to mother/mom!

Would Afrikaans _'n Briefie vir mamma_ do it?  (Sounds good to me. But what would
*I* know?)  Can you even make a diminutive form of Russian Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑŒÐ¼Ð¾ _pis'mo_ 'letter'? 

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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