LL-L "Negation" 2006.06.09 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 09 June 2006 * Volume 02
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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Negation' 2006.06.08 (01) [E/LS/German]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>Ron/Reinhard wrote:
French _Je ne veux pas pleurer_ ("I not want not to-cry"<

The 'pas' is not a negative concept here; its literal meaning is 'step' and
the original idea was only used with verbs of motion and so meant "not
another step more"

There was a wealth of different negatives pairs in early French each of
which negated a certain type of verb

Bodmer " Loom of Langauges" p 339
In daily speech Latin - speaking peoples used to strengthen the 'ne'
particle by adding another word for something small or valueless. they said
"I can't see a speck" ( Latin punctum) " We haven't had a crumb" ( Latin
micam) "I won't drink a drop" ( Latin guttam).
In the modern Romanace languages the negative particle is still the Latin
non ( ne/nao/nu) to which some such emphasising element may be added; and
in French a double barrelled negation is obligatory. In Old French, non had
become 'nen' and later 'ne'. It was often strengthened by other words. Some
of them tallied with ones used in Vulgar Latin as above; one was new.

je ne vois point I don;t see a speck
je ne mange mie I don;t eat a crumb
je ne bois goutte I don't drink a drop
je ne marche pas I don't do a step
...
If 'ne' is accompanied by another negative such as personne, rien or
jamais ( nobody, nothing & never) the latter replace 'pas' or 'point'.
In popular French the process has gone further. While in OF the 'pas' was
more often omitted than not, you now hear French people drop the
emasculated 'ne' and say " J'aime pas ça"

( it then goes on about 'ne' + non negative ideas of ne + que and ne +
guère )

So French only really uses a double negative when using ne + rien, jamais &
personne

bw
Heather

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From: 'Scat' <Scat at cfl.rr.com> 
Subject: LL-L 'Negation' 2006.06.08 (01) [E/LS/German]

Unless you are prepared to translate 'il n'y a pas de quoi' as 'it no there
has not of what', we must remember
that we are translating from one set of idiomatic structures to another. My
French students (way back in the
grammar-translation days) asked me why the French 'Mon Dieu' was translated
'My Goodness' in English--I explained
that the verbal impact was closer to being the same: 'My God' was stronger
than 'Mon Dieu.'
Scott Catledge 

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Negation 

Hi, Scott!

I believe this is your posting debut.  Thanks and welcome to the verbal section
of the crew!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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