LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.02 (03) [E]

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02 March 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Clarkedavid8 at aol.com <Clarkedavid8 at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.01 (08) [E]

IReinhard/Ron writes:


  "But "British," well, that's another matter ... In Hamburg Low Saxon and
  Missingsch, a _Bri(e)t_ (pl. _Brie(t)en_) is an antisocial element, a
  ruffian or hooligan ... ;-)  There's even an old popular song called _Die
  Barmbeker Briten_ and a new comedy with that title performed by the
  Ohnsorg-Theater, Hamburg.  There must have been negative stereotypes of
  Brits and of people of Barmbek (try and pronounce it as in Australian
  English to get the Hamburg sound), a neighborhood that is now a part of
  Hamburg.  However, these stories are funny, and those _Briten_ come off 
less
  like hardened criminals than like "naughty" folk of the street-smart type,
  but there are old reports about a burgler guild that bore the name with
  pride."
Might not "Die Barmbeker Briten" refer to Hamburgers who ape British ways 
because they really want to be British, rather than the British themselves, 
and so be really a back-handed compliment to the British, although not to 
the Hamburgers, who were mocked by other Germans for their "British" ways in 
the late nineteenth century - e.g. there is a ridiculous minor Hamburg 
character in "Frau Jenny Treibel" by Fontane who is satirised for them.

David Clarke

---------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi again, Dave!

> Might not "Die Barmbeker Briten" refer to Hamburgers who ape British ways

Not them, I'd say.  They were lower working-class with minimal education and 
might not have known British from Adam.  They seem to have been of the 
day-laborer and unemployed type that made their living in other ways.  (I 
assume that was before Bismarck's social welfare reform.)

Yes, there were Anglophile circles in Hamburg (and I dare say there still 
are some).  Those of the past were of the upper classes, such as merchants' 
(especially textile and garment merchants'), shippers, captains' families, 
etc., people belonging to guilds and other exclusive organizations.  Many of 
the "better" merchant houses used to have branches in England (and perhaps 
in other parts of Britain), especially those dealing with textiles, mens' 
clothing, nautical equipment and "colonial" goods such as tea.  (Some of 
those survive, especially in the old part of the inner city, such as on 
Jungfernstieg, Colonaden and Glockengießerwall and in the Hanseviertel.)

I'm sure all this goes back to the Hanseatic era.  In fact, people of these 
classes were and in fact still are referred to as _Hanseaten_ (or these days 
more likely _echte Hanseaten_ "genuine Hanseats," since _Hanseaten_ can now 
be used to refer to people of Hamburg in general, or they might be called 
_Hamburger Patrizier_ "Hamburg patricians").  They would give their children 
names like Alice, Jenny, John, Edward, Robby and Willy, especially in the 
19th century, and they would speak a "glorified" form of Missingsch with 
loads of English-based jargon.

Some Hamburg ship owners and merchants were in fact of British, typically 
English, descent or had immigrated themselves, such as Robert Miles Sloman. 
Others had roots in other parts of Germany and Europe, such as the prominent 
ship owners Godeffroy of Swiss Hugenot origin and the prominent Jewish ship 
owners' and merchant families Ballin and Warburg.  Many newcomers may have 
been successful and wealthy, but that did not necessarily mean that they 
were included in Hanseatic patrician circles, some of which used Low Saxon 
as their insider code until the early 20th century.  Albert Ballin would 
have had a relatively easy time, and he actually came to dominate the scene, 
built not only ships but also the emigrants' halls through which many an 
American's, Canadian's, South African's and Australian's immigrant ancestor 
passed.  This was not only because of money and influence, but, "despite" 
being Jewish, because of being "assimilated" and Danish, given that ties 
with Denmark were close (for many Hamburgers closer than those with the rest 
of Germany) and most Danish Jews' ancestors had emigrated from Hamburg (the 
Amsterdam-Hamburg-Copenhagen Jewish intermarriage connection) and had 
relatives back there.

Matthias Wegener wrote a fascinating book (in German) about this, and it has 
received rave reviews:
Hanseaten : Von stolzen Bürgern und schönen Legenden
Berlin : Siedler, 1999, 461 pp, EUR 11.99, ISBN 3442760135
(much cheaper antiquarian, e.g., http://www.antiquario.de/)
http://www.berliner-lesezeichen.de/Lesezei/blz00_06/text35.htm

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: There appears to be a server problem today. 

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