LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.09 (01) [E]
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09 March 2006 * Volume 12
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.08 (08) [E]
> From: Kevin Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar"
>
>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Delectables
>>
>> Jonny again:
>> > > Sounds awful in words
>> > Why didn't you attach -ly here? Just a missprint or something else?
>> > I shouldn't ask for that if it wasn't specially YOU...
>> "Awful" here isn't an adverb modifying the verb "sounds;" it is an
>> adjective
>> modifying an omitted noun (the assumedly awful-tasting dish), something
>> like
>> "(The description of) It sounds as if (the dish =) it is awful." As far
>> as
>> I can tell, *"tastes awfully" and *"sounds awfully" are always
>> ungrammatical
>
> The way I think of it, "awful" is a predicate adjective modifying "it".
> Verbs like "seems," "sounds," "feels," "tastes," "appears," etc.,
> function
> almost like "is." The sentence "I feel badly" does not mean the same
> thing
> as "I feel bad." The former means there is something wrong with your
> sense
> of touch, while the latter means you are either ill or remorseful.
>
> Kevin Caldwell
Two types of verbs
Action verbs which are qualified by adverbs
Susan plays the guitar beautifully
Robert answered quickly
Thomas shouted angrily
Linking or state verbs which may link a noun to an adjective:
Ann is beautiful
James is quick
Sarah became angry
Some verbs can be used both ways. For example, verbs of the senses when
used intransitively (no object):
The bell sounds awful
and when used transitively (with object):
Peter sounded the bell awfully.
David Barrow
----------
From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.08 (02) [E]
Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>Jonny again:
> > Sounds awful in words
> Why didn't you attach -ly here? Just a missprint or something else?
> I shouldn't ask for that if it wasn't specially YOU...
"Awful" here isn't an adverb modifying the verb "sounds;" it is an
adjective
modifying an omitted noun (the assumedly awful-tasting dish), something
like
"(The description of) It sounds as if (the dish =) it is awful." As far as
I can tell, *"tastes awfully" and *"sounds awfully" are always
ungrammatical. -- Folks, if you want to respond to this, please do so under
"LL-L Grammar" to keep it apart from the thread "Delectables."<
You got there before me, Ron!
It is awful adjective in apposition
It sounds awful ditto
It looks awful ditto
Heather
----------
From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.08 (08) [E]
Kevin, Ron,
thanks to both of you!
Ron:
> > Jonny again:
> > > > Sounds awful in words
> > > Why didn't you attach -ly here? Just a missprint or something else?
> > > I shouldn't ask for that if it wasn't specially YOU...
> > "Awful" here isn't an adverb modifying the verb "sounds;" it is an
> > adjective
> > modifying an omitted noun (the assumedly awful-tasting dish), something
> > like
> > "(The description of) It sounds as if (the dish =) it is awful." As far
> > as
> > I can tell, *"tastes awfully" and *"sounds awfully" are always
> > ungrammatical
Kevin:
>
> The way I think of it, "awful" is a predicate adjective modifying "it".
> Verbs like "seems," "sounds," "feels," "tastes," "appears," etc., function
> almost like "is." The sentence "I feel badly" does not mean the same
> thing
> as "I feel bad." The former means there is something wrong with your sense
> of touch, while the latter means you are either ill or remorseful.
I really can't remember having been taught this (though it might be- I don't
want to calumniate my good old teachers ;-)!!) during all my life learning
English. It sounds very logically but is difficult to be kept in the mind of
a non-native speaker.
Friendly regards
Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar
You're welcome, Jonny, and thanks, everyone, for explaining this better than
I did. I remember that as a learner I memorized it as "It sounds as though
it's good" > "It sounds good." I guess we all need our mnemonic devices.
For speakers of Dutch, German, Low Saxon, etc., it can be hard to learn to
morphologically differentiate between adjectives and adverbs in related
languages in which the two are strictly separated (in this case adverbs
being morphologically marked derivations from adjectives -- in English by
"-ly" and in Scandinavian by _-t_). What is even more difficult is to come
to terms with what looks like exceptions to the rule once learned. I think
that happened to you here, Jonny.
As you gain a surer footing in English and this adjective vs adverb rule
becomes second nature, you start having a hard time with English dialects
that seemingly violate the rule, such as certain "low-class" American
dialects (e.g., "He screamed real loud," as opposed to "He screamed really
loudly"). And then there are exceptions in "good" English, such as "She
talked fast" (not *"She talked fastly"). Finally, especially in American,
there are what seem to be borrowings (perhaps originally comical ones) from
"low-class" dialects, usually "for effect," such as "Well, I fixed *them*,
and I fixed 'em *good*" (often said with drawn-out "good" in fake Southern
style). (The meaning of the sentence is something like "I taught them a
lesson that they won't ever forget." Hey, that could be used in the last
paragraph of our wren story translation.)
I guess Scots shows us the origin of this adverbial "-ly" in retaining
_-like_ (e.g., _Shut it ticht-like_ ? = "Shut it tightly").
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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