LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.15 (06) [A/E/Gothic]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

15 March 2006 * Volume 06
=======================================================================

From: Felix Hülsey <felix.huelsey at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L Etymology

Hallo all,

Heiko wrote:

> See in http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kater_(Alkohol)
> "Das Wort "Kater" stammt ursprünglich aus der studentischen
Umgangssprache
> des
> 19. Jahrhunderts und ist scherzhaft abgeleitet von Katarrh." This is the
> usual explanation for the origin here in Germany. The only thing that
makes
> me doubt this story is that a hangover and a Katarrh are very
different. So
> for this story to work, the only idea to make it probable is that it
> started
> as a first-year-student's joke who did not know the meaning of the words.

The dtv-Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Deutschen says regarding the
connection between Kater and Katarrh:

"den inhaltlichen Zusammenhang zeigen Fügungen wie _physischer Catarrh_
und _moralischer Catarrh_ bei Hippel 1793"

  - so this was probably what a hangover used to be called in the 18th
century.

About the Katzenjammer Kids: I have heard about them, but never actually
seen a page or a drawing. Does anyone know how the name came about?
Katzenjammer is actually a word for hangover, quite obsolete I would
say, but also for a state of mind when you pity yourself intensely
because of a mistake you committed, an opportunity you missed or
something like that. Or did they choose the name merely because it
sounded German?

Kind regards
Felix

----------

From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.15 (03) [A/E]

Haai julle,

In Afrikaans gebruik ons die term 'katte[r]maai' wat enersyds
die lawaai is wat katte gedurende paring maak, en andersyds
die kabaal is wanneer mense partytjie hou of baklei.
Die woord 'maai' is gelaai met betekenis en kan ook beteken
'moer' (slaan), 'baarmoeder' (uterus) en 'ma'.

Nou kan ons oor 'kabaal' gesels!

Groete,
Elsie Zinsser

caterwaul, v.
1. _intr._ Of cats: To make the noise proper to them at rutting time.
  Prof. Skeat explains Caterw(r)awet, in Chaucer, as a verbal n., on the
type of OE. _on huntað_, a-hunting.
c1386 CHAUCER Wife's Prol. (Harl.) 354 If the cattes skyn be slyk and gay,
forth she wil, er eny day be dawet, To schewe hir skyn, and goon a
caterwrawet [so Corpus: 5 texts have -wawed].
2. _transf._ To utter a similar cry; to make a discordant, hideous noise; to
quarrel like cats.
1621 BURTON _Anat. Mel._ I. ii. III. x. (1676) 66/2 They will let them
[children] caterwaule, sterue, begge and hang.
3. To be in heat; to be lecherous; to behave amorously or lasciviously; to
woo (_contemptuous_).
1599 NASHE _Lent. Stuffe_ (1871) 89 The friars and monks caterwauled, from
the abbots and priors to the novices.
Etymology:
[This occurs in the various forms _caterwrawe_, _-wawe_, _-wrawl(e_,
_-wawle_, _-waul_. The second element appears separately in the vb. _wrawen_
used (of a cat) by Caxton, _wrawlen_, _wraule_ of cats, squalling children,
etc., frequent in Googe, Tusser, Holland, and others from c 1570 to 1625 or
later; _waul_ is of doubtful occurrence before 1600. The precise relation
between these is not clear; all are prob. imitative of the sound, but
whether the forms in -l are formed on the others (cf. mew, mewl, Ger.
_miauen_, _miaulen_, and F. _miauler_) is doubtful.
  Forms akin to _wrawe_, _wrawl_ in other langs. are Da. _vraale_, Sw.
_vråla_, to roar, bellow, bawl, Norw. dial. _råla_, in the north of Norway
'to cry as a cat', LG. _wralen_ (Bremen Wbch.) said of a stallion in heat,
also of an ill-behaved man, 'to be noisy and unruly'; cf. also Bavarian
_rauen_, _rauelen_ 'to howl, whine', said esp. of the cat, also Swiss
_rauen_, _räulen_, the latter esp. of the cry of the cat when in heat. (Wr-
becomes r- in HG.: an OE. *_wreawlian_, ME. _wrawlen would answer exactly to
Bav. _rauelen_.) The sense of the Ger. words also comes near the Eng., since
both in Chaucer and in the transf. use of the 16-17th c., the word was spec.
applied to the cry and behaviour of the cat when 'after kind'. As to the
_-waul_ form, an exact LG. counterpart _katterwaulen '(von Kindern) schreien
und heulen wie streitende Katzen'_ is given by Schambach, _Göttingisches
Grubenhagen'sches Idiotiken_ 1858, but its history is uncertain; cf. also
Icel. _vála_ to wail.
  Cater is, of course, connected with AT, but the form is not certainly
explained: some would see in it a parallel to Du. and Ger. _kater_ male cat,
which may once have existed in OE.; but the word appears too late to prove
this. Others would take _-er_ as some kind of suffix or connective merely.]

</quote>

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.15


Hails liobotheinai!

Just a brief blessing on Karl Schulte. First, an apology: When I wrote in 
last week that "Gothic has no word for _yesterday_, and then blamed it on 
the red wine, I was joking. Those Lowlanders who know some of my many 
limitations also know that one of them is to jest at unexpected and, to 
many, inappropriate times. This was one of them. Indeed, I was keenly aware 
that great portions of  Wulfila's Gothic translation of the Bible, including 
passages with _yesterday_, among many, many others, got lost in the great 
nightmarish swirl we call history.

Together with a friend, Peter Tunstall, we were reconstructing a _yesterday_ 
from available evidence some months ago, when he was actually writing the 
Gothic lyrics to Paul McCartney's "Yesterday". But I should have told the 
readers the science first, then the joke.

Also, the fictional "kattas" for Gothic h! angover is just that. There is no 
linguistic evidence for it to my knowledge.

This also is in keeping with Ron's theme: the scholarship is ok, but don't 
let's get carried away with it to the point that we merely intimidate and 
bore our friends.

You will notice, in the coming weeks and months, that I also have a tendency 
to "discover" ancient texts that we wish we had: some Gothic, earliest 
Saxon, some proto-Germanic linking directly back to a common 
Germanic-Celtic-Tocharian-Hittite parent. All of it written on stones still 
hidden until April 23, May 19, and June 30, when I shall "discover" them.

For a small price, I can even "discover" parchment and papyrus manuscripts 
to be used in dissertations.

Karl has a great sense of humor, and his wonderful English puts me to shame.
Now he can give his sense of tolerance a workout ;-)

Arthur

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Þu þarft nei maúrnan ana waíhts, Arþurs, frijônds jah brôþar meins. 
Einhvarjizuh mêl ist mêl faúr bilaikan, anstáis, fahêþ, anaþrafstjan, 
biwisan jah dulþ.

Gôleins,
Reinhard/Ron 

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================