LL-L "Anniversary" 2006.03.26 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 26 March 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Stellingwerfs Eigen <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.25 (02) [E]

Looking for some more Urban Frisian Wren-story's?

In our next issue 'An de liende' april 1st we'll pay attention to this item
and place a call to the appr. 75 Frisian writers who do recieve our e-mail
magazine. I'll let You know.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf (ok Frielaand)
Piet Bult

Anyone who want to more about Urban Frisian can take a look at the website
of the
Institut für Nederlandistik - Universität Wien:
http://www.ned.univie.ac.at/publicaties/taalgeschiedenis/nl/fries.htm

or on the website of the university of Berlin:
http://neon.niederlandistik.fu-berlin.de/langvar/languagefriesland/

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From: Andrys Onsman <andrys.onsman at calt.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.26 (01) [E]

Subject: Language Varieties
To: Ingmar & Ron

Ingmar, if you get a draft of the story in Liwwarders, I'd be happy to
cast an eye over it. Plus I'll be home in August and might be be able to
strong-arm an older relative to read it aloud. ('K zou 't sels oek wel
doen kunne, as 't mut.).

I have a distant relative (How Frisian!) who is an expert in 't Bildts.
I'll send him the link to the project - hopefully it will enthuse him.
He does a lot of recording of the language.

To Pat:
As an academic supervising PhD students myself, I encourage your
resourcefulness: this list is a treasure trove of stimulating ideas. I
have some texts and references on Urban Frisian that may be of use to
you in your study. Let me know if you're interested.

Freonlike groet
Andrys

> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.25 (02) [E]
>
> In Friesland (the Dutch province) there are a number of non-Frisian
> varieties: next to Stadsfries, there is Bildts, Stellingwarvian,
> certain dialects of the Frisian Islands (Waddeneilanden) and
> Kollumerlands.
> They all have quite a lot in common with eachother and with Stadsfries,
> also the Low Saxon Stellingwarvian. Bildts is said to be havily
> influenced
> by Flemish and Zeelandic, Stadsfries by older Dutch and by "Eastern
> Dutch"
> (Low Saxon coloured), Vlielands (Island) is in fact a North Holland Dutch
> dialect.
> I'll see what I can do to get a Stadsfries Wren, I know someone very
> vaguely whom I could ask it to ...
>
> Groeten
> Ingmar
>
>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> I'm curious on which page you found a reference to Urban Frisian
>
> (_Stedsk_ <
>
>> W. Fr. _Stêdsk_ 'urban', or _Sted(s)frysk_ 'urban Frisian').  I'm not
>
> sure,
>
>> but my view is that it is Dutch on Westerlauwer Frisian substrates, the
>> equivalent of (urban) Missingsch in Germany (German on Low Saxon
>
> substrates.
>
>> Being fascinated by "blatantly"* "mixed" languages (* given that *all*
>> languages are "mixed"), I am very interested in Urban Frisian and
>> also in
>> "Western Frisian" (_Westfries_*), the latter of which is apparently
>> Dutch
>
> on
>
>> Frisian substrates as well.   I sure wish we had versions of the wren
>
> story
>
>> in them, preferably with sound files, especially in Liwadders, the
>> one of
>> Ljouwert/Leeuwarden, the capital of Fryslân.  Other well-known dialects
>
> are
>
>> Bòlswadders (of Boalsert/Bolswarden), Dòkkumers (of Dokkum),
>> Franekers (of
>> Frjentsjer/Franeker), Harlingers (of Harns/Harlingen), Snekers (of
>> Snitser/Sneker), and Stavers (of Starum/Stavoren).
>
> -----------
>
> From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.25 (02) [E]
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> I was looking at http://www.lowlands-l.net/ - there is a page about
> Urban Frisian, with some examples of words in Dutch, UF and Frisian.  I
> was intrigued to see that in some, UF seemed closer to English than to
> either of the languages quoted.
>
> Why I was really looking (and why I want to know when this language was
> first recorded) is I am busy writing chapter four of my thesis, the
> historical background stuff, and am trying to summarise the linguistic
> situation in the Low Countries in the 16th to 18th centuries (when,
> according to some authors, everyone spoke Dutch!).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Pat

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Anniversary

Thank you so much, Piet!  That's terrific.

Please let people know that they should not fear what seems like 
duplication.  Just because there is already a version in what they consider 
their language variety does not mean that their versions are not welcome. 
The more the merrier.  No two people speak exactly the same variety, after 
all.

Piet, you might like to consult our Henry Pijffers 
<henry.pijffers at saxnot.com> (a Twente Low Saxon speaker) regarding 
instructions for audio file production and then add that information to your 
appeal.

You're edging very close to a Hawaiian name, Piet ...  This must be 
extremely exciting news for you.  ;-)

Happily a new version can be announced, thanks to our Glenn: Tyneside 
Northumbrian 
(http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=northumbrian).  Thanks 
a lot, Glenn!  You're due a Hawaiian name.

And you, Andrys, as always, thanks for your help and support.  Any chance of 
a Cape Barren English audio file?  I know this sounds greedy, but ...  And 
there's a chance to reconfirm your worthiness of the honor I bestowed upon 
you some time ago by means of a Hawaiian name (one of my favorites):

Ko'i'ulalalo-Mōlīkīkaha
(< Tokikurararo Mōrītītafa)
   kīkaha (glide, soar)
   ko'i'ula (rainbow-hued mist)
   lalo (leeward, lee, southern)
   mōlī (albatross)

Remember, folks, that much of this, especially the non-standard varieties, 
is very rarely found information for most people in the world.  Most of them 
don't know about the existence of such varieties, because most official 
portrayals of countries omit the existence of most language varieties and 
give the false impression of homogeneous speaker communities.  Even those 
people that do know about diversity and about the existence of "minor" 
varieties have never seen them written nor heard them spoken.  So this is 
not just a nerdy hobby to kill time but a fairly important educational 
service rendered in a fairly entertaining way.  As I mentioned before, lots 
of people, more every day, visit the presentation, and among those that link 
to it from their websites are educators and educational institutions.

Important messages are embedded in it, such as "Linguistic diversity is 
still greater than you might have thought," "You are not the only language 
enthusiast, so join the club!", "There is not such thing as good, bad, 
beautiful and ugly languages," and for lots of people very basic messages 
such as "Yes, English *is* a Germanic language," "German was not the 
original language of today's Northern Germany," "The real Saxony is not in 
today's German state by that name," "Scots is not Gaelic," "Not all 
Holsteiners and Frisians are cows," and "Not all Limburgers are cheeses." 
To some people we offer more "exotic" eye-openers such as "Dutch and Low 
Saxon have influenced English, Scandinavian, Polish, Kashubian, Latvian, 
Lithuanian, Estonian, Finnish and Russian, besides Dutch and German," and 
"Low Saxon speaker communities of are not only found in Germany and the 
Netherlands but also as far east as the Chinese border and as far west as 
the coast of British Columbia," not to mention questions such as "Should 
Northumbrian and Zeelandic be considered dialect groups or languages in 
their own right?"

So please spread the word and keep us supplied (also with personal 
introductions)!

Thanks,

Reinhard/Ron 

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