LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.03 (01) [E]

Wed May 3 15:16:14 UTC 2006

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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L O W L A N D S - L * 03 May 2006 * Volume 01
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From: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.02 (05) [E]
Subject: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>

Sorry, the last one got away before it was finished.

Ingmar wrote:
>So, Gabriele, what happened to the ones that did call you "mom" -
>are they still around? ;-)
>And is this the same for you when in German they call you a "Mutti",
>or in Dutch a "mama"?

Well, yes, I let them live - can't be too careful in a country where they
have
capital punishment! :-)

And the same is very much true for Germans who would call me "Mutti". The
very
nerve!! But for some reason, Dutch "mama" wouldn't sound quite so bad to me,
probably because the Dutch language uses so many diminuitives anyway that it
wouldn't stand out so much. Also, the Dutch aren't exactly known for
trying to
impose their language and culture on the rest of the world these days, so
I tend to
feel a whole lot more forgiving towards them in such matters.

Ron:
>It has never occurred to me to reject it or pass judgment on it,
>least of all because this is not my native language and culture.

That I believe, and forgive me for going a bit overboard, but this has
nothing to do
with "not your native language and culture". This is because you are a man,
comfortably settled in an academic position, and have never faced this
constant
struggle of being taken seriously as a mature grown-up person, able to
carry a full
workload and more, that every woman has gone through at least
periodically, in most
cases her whole life. We face challenges and fight battles that you, along
with most
males in most societies, are simply blissfully unaware of.

Have you ever applied for a job and then been told "Sorry, we didn't know
you had
young children - you obviously belong at home with them", or "Does your
husband know
you are applying here?", or ""Sorry, but this is a leadership position, so
we are
looking for a male applicant", or "You were not considered for this
position because
we have enough gentlemen to choose from" - all of that without ever even
getting to
meet those people face to face? And these are only some of the things that
have
happened to me in person.

Have you ever heard, after a day of carrying heavy furniture and boxes,
helping a
friend move house, somebody say: "This went fast! Well, there were five of
us after
all" - while in fact there were six, but he only counted the men? Have you
ever, as
a child, participated in a wrestling match against seven boys, come out
the winner,
and been told that it doesn't count because "girls can't wrestle"? Have
you ever
been refused a game of chess because someone didn't want to "waste his
time playing
against a woman" (whenever they played after all, they got slaughtered, of
course)?
Have you ever been told by an insurance agent that he would rather talk
"to the man
of the house"?

This could go on and on. And this is just me, and I have been a somewhat
belligerent
(no, really?), intelligent and educated, fairly self-confident no-nonsense
tomboy
all my life. So can you imagine what the rest of them is going through?
Not being
considered a "mom" takes a lot of fighting spirit, especially since there
are so
many who readily identify with this label.

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Hi, Gabriele!

I certainly appreciate what you said, acknowledge discrimination against
and stereotyping of women (which I don't think are any less in Germany
than in the United States) and also make allowances for people being
buzzed the wrong way or different ways by certain buzz words.  We all have
our peeves.

Whilst I do not want this to go the way of the battle of the sexes, let me
just say that stereotyping and dicrimination affect men also, though in
different ways, such as being branded a sexual predator by default, not
being able to as much as smile at someone's child or having women let the
elevator go by if you're the only on on it, etc., etc., not to mention
still being expected to be the provider and being made to feel bad for
earning less than your wife by the very women that condemn stereotyping. 
We all have our crosses to bear, and stereotyping does not do anyone any
good (though it's convenient for the lazy), nor does making up one's mind
about someone without sufficient knowledge.  (Your assessment of me is not
quite accurate, by the way, but that's not really important.)

What this was about to begin with was your claim that "Mom" and "Dad" are
unacceptable and demeaning choices in my translation of the Low Saxon
song, when everyone else has been saying that "Mom" and "Dad" are the only
choices within the given context in the vast majority of Modern English
dialects (and going back a good way), that in this contexts "Mother" and
"Father" would be perceived as inappropriate by native English speakers. 
Where I come from, a translator has to choose equivalent lexical items
optimally in conveying the original's assumed intent and tone, and this
includes culturally, socially and idiomatically appropriate choices.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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