LL-L "Terms of address" 2006.05.14 (01) [E]

Sun May 14 19:13:58 UTC 2006

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 14 May 2006 * Volume 01
======================================================================

From: "Karl-Heinz Lorenz" <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Terms of address" 2006.05.11 (05) [E]

Ron:
> Gabriele doesn't really exist.  She's merely one of my alter-egos,
> counter-balancing that of the kahuna.  My shrink tells me I subconsciously
> created her because I have suppressed masochistic tendencies, and
> splitting off that personality is the only way I permit myself to living
> out my fantasies.

I don't know if zzat iz true, because answering

> I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together...

you should have written something like John Lennon did in the "Glass Onion"
about "The Walrus": "I told you 'bout the walrus and me, you know they were
as close as can be. Well here's another clue for you all, the walrus was
Paul!

----------

From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de
Subject: "Terms of address" 2006.05.13 (01) [E]

Ron wrote some time ago:
>But who wouldn't agree that
>Gabriele (with one "l" and a long "e" before that) and I aren't an
>extremely rare case?

I didn't comment then because it was clear that you meant just the opposite
of what you were actually saying (you said we certainly aren't a rare case,
while you seem to think that we definitely are).

But this?
>Take our Reuben and his wife for instance.  Age-wise they could be my
>parents, but I address them by their first names.  Could I respect them
>any less than I do?  No, sirry!

Really!! What have Reuben and his wife ever done to you??? Please re-read
carefully what you're actually saying here... you couldn't respect them any
LESS?

Time for yet another discussion about double negatives, I suppose... :-)

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: "Terms of address" 2006.05.13 (01) [E]

Hi, Ron and others,

all the friends of my own children *have* to call me by my first name- no
matter
about their age (my oldest daughter is 26, my youngest son 11, and their
friends are corresponding).
But- it's a different thing with my niece and my nephew. When they were
very young and started to adress me just with my first name I had a
discussion with my brother and his wife.
I could convince them that the little ones calling me "Uncle" would create
a special connection between them and me- it would deepen the
relationship. The children would recognice me as a very close relative by
blood, and I would take a special commitment, would be in a special duty
towards them.

I thought this could make sense in a world everyone calls everybody with
his first name.

They are in their 20's now and still use to call me 'Uncle' as I do with
my own aunts and uncles.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: "Luc Hellinckx" <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Terms of address"

Beste Sandy en Ron,

On Sat, 2006-05-13 at 20:16 +0200, you respectively wrote:

> My father always refered to his
> mother as "your granny" when speaking to me, but referred to his father
> by his first name when speaking to me. Why he did this I don't know.

and

> Take our Reuben and his wife for instance.  Age-wise they could be my
> parents, but I address them by their first names.  Could I respect them
> any less than I do?  No, sirry!  Would it make a difference if I called
> them Mr. and Ms. Epp?  Yes, it would, but not in a good way.  It would
> create distance, a type of barrier, while at the moment they are to me
> friends for whom I have the utmost degrees of affection *and* respect.
> Why?  Because they are very sweet and kind people and you cannot help but
> have respect and admiration for them simply because of their attitudes,
> conduct, decency, knowledge and wisdom.

In the seventies and eighties, when I was in school, all of us guys were
addressing each other by their family-names...even our best friends!
Some had nicknames, but nobody (unless a female student) was ever
addressed by their first name back then. As far as I know, this was not
so much the case among female students. In the meantime, things have
leveled out a bit...until last week...I was quite surprised to hear a
female student call one of her (most popular!) classmates by her family
name once again.

On the whole, I have the impression that quite a lot of guys tend to
treat older persons differently, depending on gender, when adressing
them.
For example, you will indeed call Reuben Epp by his first name Ron, but
Clara Kramer will be addressed as _Tant Clara_ (or _mien Clara-Tant_),
even though you respect both of them very much.
Sandy's father spoke of "granny" when talking about his mother, but his
father would be called by his first name.

Why the difference? Could it be that men are more biased than women?

Anyway, here in Belgium, in a non-formal situation, I regularly hear
women discuss other women, using the word _Madam_ and then her surname:

"Madam Ceuppens és oek ne mi(ë) van de joengst(e) è?"

At the same time, I've never heard a man (or a woman!) call somebody
_Meneer_ (D) (= Mr. in English) in a neutral way in a similar setting.
It's only used when people want to describe a person who is sort of
overacting, trying very much to behave like a 19th century "citizen", "a
bourgeois", "ne goeien börger" (B).

Another example: In Asia, many people refer to adult females as ladies,
but I have seldom heard people use the term "gentleman" for a guy.

In order to avoid sexual discrimination, maybe we Lowlanders should
start using the term 同志 for our "comrades" *s*...what do you
think
kahuna? *s*

Kind greetings,

товарищ

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Termns of address

Thanks for the deserved peanut, Gabriele.  Obviously, it was a slip, and
not a Freudian one.  It was meant to be "any MORE."

Thanks for the input, Jonny and Luc, also.

Luc, you could be onto something there, regarding the gender thing.  I
think much depends on how a relationship starts off.  Clara came across to
me auntie-like or maternally, and I responded to it.  Reuben came across
more like what in Low Saxon we call a _mitstryder_ (<Mitstrieder>),
something like a "comrade-in-arms," colleague-like, so to speak.  There
wasn't anything paternal in his way of communicating, while Clara enjoyed
both the comrade-in-arms role *and* the maternal role.  It could also very
well be that I am more receptive to someone's maternal treatment than to
someone's paternal treatment, and we won't delve any farther into my
psychological make-up than this.

"Comrade" doesn't go over well in many parts of the world.  Perhaps "maat"
would be a good compromise, related to English "mate," derived from Middle
Saxon _mate_ (["mQ:te] > _maat_ [mQ:t]) and understood elsewhere in the
Lowlands, besides conjuring up images of shipmates and meaning "member" or
"stakeholder" as well, originally meaning something like "someone with
whom one shares (food)."  What do you think?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================