LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.14 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 14 May 2006 * Volume 03
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From: "Paul Finlow-Bates" <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.13 (02) [E]

From: "Andy Eagle" Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.12 (08) [E]

Gabriele Wrote:
>
> Andy Eagle wrote:
> >Why would "whom to blame" be more correct and who is the arbiter?
>
> Well, because "to blame" is a transitive verb and would therefore call for
> an accusative ("whom").

Me and many other English speakers don't use whom at all. Who has the right
to tell us we're wrong?

Andy Eagle

  I not sure "wrong" or "right" are really the correct terms. 
Traditionally, or
historically, using the (almost extinct) accusative was normal usage; like
nearly
all our case endings, it is now dead or dying.  I would certainly never
say "whom"
unless it was a deliberate affectation, as a joke.  But if there are
people who
still use it routinely, it is also no less "correct" - in the way that some
northern English people still use variants of "thee" and "thou".

  Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.13 (02) [E]

Hi, Gabriele and Andy,

your discussion here

>> Well, because "to blame" is a transitive verb and would therefore call
>> for
>> an accusative ("whom").
>
> Me and many other English speakers don't use whom at all. Who has the
> right
> to tell us we're wrong?

reminds me of my own problems I sometimes have had with LS-speakers and
-writers
outside of my own regional dialect. Many of them talk, write or even made
rules of
the kind they think that grammar, syntax or pronunciation *should* be
disregarding
the way it really *is* used. Today I've (more or less) learned to respect
these
differences, though for myself I don't like the result as an artificial
product.

BTW: Far off from being familiar with English I'd always use 'to blame'
with "whom"-
the way it perhaps *should* be ;-)...

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: "Montgomery Michael" <ullans at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.13 (02) [E]

Here, here! (sorr, it's Hear, hear?) for who and its
siblings whoever, etc.  I don't use "who" either
except occasionally after a preposition.  It would
still be a faux pas to write "To Who It May Concern"
in a letter of recommendation, I dare say.

Michael

> From: "Andy Eagle" <andy at scots-online.org
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.12 (08) [E]
>
> Gabriele Wrote:
> >
> > Andy Eagle wrote:
> > >Why would "whom to blame" be more correct and who
> is the arbiter?
> >
> > Well, because "to blame" is a transitive verb and
> would therefore call for
> > an accusative ("whom").
>
> Me and many other English speakers don't use whom at
> all. Who has the right
> to tell us we're wrong?
>
> Andy Eagle

----------

From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.05.13 (02) [E]

Andy wrote:
>Me and many other English speakers don't use whom at all. Who has the right
>to tell us we're wrong?

Not wrong, really. Just not correct in the grammatical sense... :-)

Would you actually say that Hemingway wrote a book titled "For who the bell
tolls"?
But I think this whole who/whom thing has been discussed here at length
rather recently.

Gabriele Kahn

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