LL-L "Appellations" 2006.05.22 (02) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 22 May 2006 * Volume 02
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Terms of address" 2006.05.10 (01) [E]

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Terms of address
>
>People in government may be referred to as "Right Honorable So-And-So"
>
"Right Honorable So-And-So"? :)

I don't know about your English, but in our English a "So-And-So" is a
euphemism for... something else!

It's interesting to compare the uses of names and titles and all the
fussiness that goes on around them in Hearing society with the way these
things are done in (British) Deaf culture.

Firstly, titles: as far as I know these aren't used, so that's that
dealt with!

Personal names are a whole different kettle of fish too. Surnames only
very, very rarely come into play. Even first names aren't very often
seen. A statement like:

"How are you, Libby?"

is never uttered in BSL, it's simply, "How are you?", because you just
don't refer to a person by name while talking to them. It's not a
formality, just a feature of the language.

Usually if a person is present, their name isn't used even if you're
talking to someone else, because you simply refer to them using a
pronoun (or by pointing or glancing at the person, which comes to the
same thing in BSL since this is the way pronouns are produced in BSL).

All of this means that a person may only rarely see their name used.

As for names, there used to be signs for names, but these seem to be
rare these days. For example, I know BSL signs for "David", "John",
"Andrew", "Richard" and "Margaret", but that's all, since they're so
rarely seen now. The signs for David and John seem to me to indicate the
style of beard King David and John the Baptist were drawn with in
illustrations in children's Bibles, while "Richard" looks like it might
be an obsolete sign for "rich". But "Andrew" and "Margaret" are still a
bit mysterious to me, though I have a few tentative theories!

Nowadays people may just fingerspell their names or they may have "sign
names". Strictly speaking, a sign name is a sign that's given to you by
the community as a name, it's not usual to make up your own. It may be a
sign for your actual name, or some characteristic, or it may signify
some memorable event in your life that everybody knows about. It has no
official status and might be changed when appropriate, such as if you
shave off the chacteristic, or express a definite dislike for the name.

Since I travel a lot and meet a lot of different Deaf communities, I
have several sign names, depending on what any given community calls me.
In Yeovil they call me "Goth", but in Bristol they call me "Sandy" (the
sign for "sand"), since I'm not the only goth in the Deaf community
there. As I said, a person may only rarely see their name used, and
recently I made a discovery. I was discreetly watching a conversation
between some Bridgwater/Taunton Deaf and they were talking about a
person they called "Black". I felt a growing suspicion and went up and
enquired who the person they called "Black" was. Yes, it was me, and
apparently I've been called that for a year along the Somerset coast and
never saw it used until now!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Appellations

Sandy:

> "Right Honorable So-And-So"? :)
>
> I don't know about your English, but in our English a "So-And-So" is a
> euphemism for... something else!

I see ... Well, what can I say.  But there would be many worshippers around 
the world that would find that description fitting.  Anyway, I wrote 
"So-And-So," not "so-and-so."

> I felt a growing suspicion and went up and
> enquired who the person they called "Black" was. Yes, it was me, and
> apparently I've been called that for a year along the Somerset coast and
> never saw it used until now!

I could have told you that.  Or better to say, the Kahuna could have.  After 
all, he gave you the fragrant name ‘Aeko‘eleho‘āhumo‘olelo ("Black 
Literature-Collecting Hawk").
http://www.lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnosymbology" 2006.05.21 (01) [E]

> Lieve Laglanners,
>
> Karl-Heinz schreev,
>
> >For sure, the people in the Papua Niuginian Highlands, in the Alps and
> the
> >Scottish >Highlands are pretty archaic, sort of Aborigines, something we
> >should be proud of."
>
> You said it, Karl-Heinz! And in the sense that mountains produce
> isolation,
> which in turn produces slower change in language usage, bravo.

Thanks for the bravo!

For the Alpes it is striking, that the isolated Raethoromans, Walser, 
Cimbrian, Tyrolean and other groups (mainly) in Italy maintained their 
identity till today, as they even survived fascist and Nazi terror i.e. 
"Umsiedlung etc.". Totally different from for example the Lombards, who gave 
up their language only about 100 years after settlement in Italy, the nobles 
only after 10 to 20 years. So, the Lombards seem to me pretty lowlands, 
settling in the coastal regions south of the Alps and not beeing isolated at 
all. Whereas speaking a HG variety, a language they probably acquired not 
until after leaving "the Bardengau" in Low Saxony.

> However: Our own Ron (Big Kahuna) Hahn has been pulling the wool over our
> eyes for some time in this regard. Here's what happened:
>
> Some months ago, Ron's channelled (or tunnel) vision came up with a
> Polynesian, allegedly Kahunan, HONORARY NAME for me, which Ron said means
> "Glorious song of the Northern Sea Coast" or something similar.
>
> However, becoming suspicious when a young lady at the Hawaiian Gardens
> Trailer Park, who claims to know the Hawaiian language, lauged at my
> Ron-bestowed Genuine Kanuhan Name. She said it means something entirely
> different. In fact, it appears that Ron was making fun of my Appalachian
> (read Ignorant Hillbilly) roots.

For me it doesn't matter if someone makes fun of me beeing sort of a 
"highlander", because I think, most of the subscribers on this list are more 
or less "funny" or so, in G: "schrullige Vögel", just as me.

For what we do here is pretty strange for rural people, as, you may laugh, 
real Alpine women and men, I can tell you, don't talk a lot, just as the 
stereotype goes, and some of them talk so less, sort of they talk as much in 
their lifetime as one of us here talks in a week or a month. And what's 
nearly regarded as a sin, is to talk about language, you know. They find 
it's stupid to do that, see it as a kind of pornography.

And I suppose that the typical farmer in rural Low Saxony is not much 
different from his "highlands" equivalent in this respect.

Otherwise I think it's a feature of endangered languages, that instead of 
talking the language, the people start to talk about the language. And this 
(incl. and particularly endagerement) goes hand in hand with urbanisation, I 
think.
>
> The name, "ki'eki'e 'aina- lalo-ola" really means "Highlands-Lowlife".
>
> Am I embarrassed! Then, when I asked the young lady at the Hawaiian
> Gardens
> Trailer Park and Amusement Center what she thought would be a better name
> for me, she replied "manaka-'elemakule-ea", and I almost sent it off to
> Ron
> to post on the Anniversary Site as my new, and really genuine, Kahunic
> Honorary Name.
>
> Until, that is, I found out what the young lady named me: It translates
> out
> as
> "Boring Old Man-- Gas", or Boring Old Fart.
>
> In quino veritas.

> Arthur
>
To check out my Kahuna name I obviously should learn Hawaiian, allegedly a 
simple language to learn. And btw I'm thinking of learning Gothic, because 
for this language it is only necessary to read one book, isn't it?

Karl-Heinz

----------

From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnosymbology" 2006.05.20 (01) [E]

> >From: "Karl-Heinz Lorenz" <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
> >Subject: LL-L "Delectables" 2006.05.17 (05) [E/LS]
>
> >For sure, the people in the Papua Niuginian Highlands, in the Alps and
> the
> >Scottish Highlands are pretty archaic, sort of Aborigines, something we
> >should be proud of.
> >
> Surely not?

Surely not??

 In what way could people in the Scottish Highlands be
> classed as archaic?

Na ja, the Celts are sort of the Aborigines in Britain, am I wrong? And in 
the Highlands there are at least some thousand people who still speak this 
language, which I would call "archaic" in the sense of the oldest still 
spoken language in Britain, as Raethoromance varieties in the Alps.

If it is archaic in a linguistic way, I can't tell, certainly an expert on 
Gaelic language knows it better.

Regards,
Karl-Heinz

----------

From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnosymbology" 2006.05.20 (01) [E]


On 22/05/2006, at 4:34 PM,  Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Subject: LL-L "Ethnosymbology" 2006.05.20 (02) [E]

  However, becoming suspicious when a young lady at the Hawaiian Gardens 
Trailer Park, who claims to know the Hawaiian language, lauged at my 
Ron-bestowed Genuine Kanuhan Name. She said it means something entirely 
different. In fact, it appears that Ron was making fun of my Appalachian 
(read Ignorant Hillbilly) roots.

Well I call my wife the Gurenne girl's name "AMANTELA" (Northern Ghana)


Having a nodding acquaintance with the dialect I know it means "Nice to 
Hold".
You Men may freely use this apellation without asking permission.

Regards

Tom Mc Rae

Brisbane Australia

Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us

Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us

Robert Burns

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