LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.08 (02) [D/E]

Sun Oct 8 19:07:43 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 08 October 2006 * Volume 02
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From: jonny [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Ethymology'

Beste Lowlanners,

following one of those postings which won't change anything but one has to write
down for one's own peace of mind...

My neighbour brought me to a very interesting matter regarding LS _karspill_, G
'Kirchspiel', E ~'the area of a single parish'.

It seems to be one of those words which made a very curious development. In all
older German/LS resources I found it written 'ker-/kar-spil[l]', until in the
17./18. c. people started to use G 'Kirch-spiel'.

In accordance with "DUDEN-HerkunftswÃ¶rterbuch": the ending 'spil/spill' is
derived from the stem around G 'spinnen', E: 'to spin' (*), while the later
'-spiel' we find rooted in Old High German 'spil', Dutch 'spel' and LS 'speel'-
meaning all the same, namely 'playing around, dancing, singing'.
[(*)Maybe there's a connection to E 'spill' (like 'oil-spill'), because it
describes something similar, an area of a definited size spreading out from one
certain, central point...]

So in LS we have to make a clear difference between words of the '-spill'-type (I
just know two of them; the mentioned 'Karspill' and the 'Spill', E 'capstan'
[though here might be doubts allowed; on sailing-vessels it describes a big,
hand-driven wheel, and sometimes right upon the centre may sit a sailor with any
instrument to make music while the crew is lifting the anchor- 'er spielt auf'!])
and those of the wider-spread '-speel'-type.

I hadn't been aware of these relations in the past, because I grew up with the
wrong, nonsensic 'Kark-Speel', while in the neighboured regions people like to
say correctly 'Kar[k]spill'.

But- we always said correctly 'speelen' for 'to play' whilst others are making
around with the wrong 'spillen' for the same: G 'Spiel', LS (correct)
'Speel/SpÃ¤l'', LS (wrong) 'Spill', E 'play/game'. (I fear Mr. Sass to be one of
them *others* because he allows 'Spill' alternatively... Water on my mill! ;-)).

Somewhat different is  G 'Beispiel' (E 'example') to LS 'Biespeel' or LS
'Biespill'; because GRIMM and DUDEN don't agree at this point. I'd never use
'Bie*spill* myself but always 'Bie*speel*, but that just might be a habit.

For further informations have a look at DUDEN-HerkunftswÃ¶rterbuch, GRIMM online
and HARPER (online)ED.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: jonny [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.05 (01) [D/E]

Dear Heather,

you wrote:
> How far down the North/South divide can one mark the use of
> Sonnabend/Samstag?
>
> Would Sonnabend have been 'created' because of the low church piety of the
> Lower Saxons i.e. the day before Sunday i.e. start preparing for God's
> day?
>
> How long can it be traced back, does anyone know?

I'd think the regions of Old Saxon influence are about the border for
'Samstag/Sonnabend', too. That roughly means the area of today's Lower Saxony,
Schleswig-Holstein and the greater part of the eastern provinces. Maybe
'Sonnabend' is used more frequently in Lutheranian areas while 'Samstag' is
preferred by Roman-Catholics. Please have a look at
http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sonnabend#.7B.7BWortart.7CSubstantiv.7CDeutsch.7D.7D.2C_.7B.7Bm.7D.7D
.

Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Moyen, Jonny!

You wrote above:

> G 'Spiel', LS (correct) 'Speel/SpÃ¤l'', LS (wrong) 'Spill', E 'play/game'.

I'm not too sure this is a case of right and wrong.  Sure, I say _speel_ [spe:l],
but I was under the impression that _spil_ (_spill_ [spI.l]) is a dialectical
variant (just as _spoel_ [spÃ¸:l] is), though _spil_ may have begun as a
"mistake," considering that the verb is *never* *_spillen_, as far as I know.

_Spil_ (_Spill_ [spI.l] < _Spille_, fem.) means 'windlass', 'capstan'.

_Byspeel_ and _byspil_ are variations, and you seem to accept them as such. Are
you suggesting that _byspil_ developed independently from _spil_?

> I'd think the regions of Old Saxon influence are about the border for 
> 'Samstag/Sonnabend', too.

You may well be right there, by and large, at least as far as the Northern
dialects are concerned.  Remember, though, that the peripheral dialects, such as
the Eastphalian ones and those of Southern Brandenburg, have bunches of
isoglosses running through them and show signs of transition toward Central
German (just as Central German have "LS" features such as _-pp-_, e.g., _Appel_
'apple').  Also, the beginning of their exposure to German predates that of the
dialects farther north.  So I would not be too surprised if variants of _Samstag_
showed up in some of those variants.

Finally I located a dialect map listing occurrences of (equivalents of) _Samstag_
and _Sonnabend_:
http://www.philhist.uni-augsburg.de/lehrstuehle/germanistik/sprachwissenschaft/medien/umfrage_regionalersprachgebrauch/Samstag.jpg

Another map can be found in Werner KÃ¶nig's _dtv - Atlas deutsche Sprache_ (ISBN:
3423030259).

As you can see, the use of _Sonnabend_ goes pretty far beyond the old Saxon area,
and there are a few enclaves of it even surrounded by Alemannic- and
Bavarian-speaking areas.  Are those long-distance Northern influences or Saxon
settlements?

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: "Stellingwerfs Eigen" [info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

John wrote:
> I know that _peer_ can also mean 'a lightbulb', and even
> 'glass phial', such as the ones that doctors dispense vaccines from, but
>  'chap'?
>
Hi John,
Your quizmaster was right.
Het woord _peer_ komt niet erg veel maar inderdaad wel en in heel
Nederland voor. Het wordt meestal gebruikt als je iemand nog niet
goed kent, bijvoorbeeld: "Ken jij Jan?" Ja, ik heb hem een keer
ontmoet. Het lijkt mij wel een aardige peer." (Nog) Geen 'fellow'
maar eerder een 'chap' or 'guy'.
Vrienden onderelkaar spreken over een gezamenlijke kennis in de vorm van:
een aardige peer; een leuke peer (een aardige vent, een leuke gozer). You
may google "aardige peer" or "leuke peer" for more examples.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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