LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.07 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  07 August 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.06 (03) [E]

This has its parallels in Australia, and for that matter, Wales and
Brittany.  I once worked with a Breton who didn't speak a word of it,
despite the fact that his father didn't even learn French until school age.
He refused to teach his son, as he never wanted him go through the beatings
he'd had as a boy.

A difficulty emerges when you try to right these past wrongs and
re-introduce the language.  Wales has made great strides in this regard, but
some Welsh people have claimed it is rather artificial as Wales never had a
"Standard Welsh" in the way English or French have standard forms.  Thus to
some areas the Welsh taught in schools is almost like teaching Dutch in
Northern Germany and saying "well, near enough"!

In Australia the situation is even more complex as there were many
languages (though most were/are much closer than say an equivalent area of
N. America). There is a community about 250 miles south of Sydney who have
lost their language completely.  They were debating learning the language of
another people to the north, who still had theirs.  Since their own language
was extinct they had no way of knowing how similar the other one was, though
place names suggest some relationship.  But question they were asking
themselves was, is learning another language just because it's "Aboriginal"
actually of any real cultural benefit?  I never heard what they decided.

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: "clarkedavid8 at aol.com" <clarkedavid8 at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.06 (08) [E

Ron wrote:

It's not as though Prince Charles, the Prince of Wales ( Y Tywysog Siarl,
Tywysog Cymru), tries to speak Welsh. But he was the first Prince of Wales
that tried to learn it, which he did at the University of Wales at
Aberystwyth ( *Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth*), enough to hold his
investiture speech in Welsh. I hardly think he uses it anymore, and going by
what David told us, he'd be laughed at if he did.

He is also the Duke of Cornwall ( Charlys, Dugeth Kernow), and to my
knowledge he didn't study Cornish.

And does Prince Philip speak Danish and Greek?  Who knows?  Among other
things, he's Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark ( *Πρίγκιπας Φίλιππος
της Ελλάδος και της Δανίας*, Prins Philip af Grækenland og Danmark), of the
House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg ( Haus
Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, Fyrstehus
Slesvig-Holsten-Sønderborg-Glücksborg). He does speak German, though, I
believe, studied in Germany for a while.

I don't know about Prince Phillip, but it is possible that Prince Charles
has learnt Greek, as a few years ago, there were rumours that he was going
on secret holidays to monasteries in northern Greece, socialising with the
London Greek community and becoming very interested in the Greek Orthodox
Church. If he switched to the Greek church, this would cause a
constitutional crisis in the UK on a scale that has not been seen since
1936, as the monarch is also the head of the Church of England and is not
allowed by law to be a Roman Catholic, let alone Greek Orthodox.

With regard to Welsh, there is a very funny film of the Secretary of State
for Wales in the early 1990s, John Redwood, at a meeting where everyone is
singing the Welsh national anthem in Welsh. He obviously didnt know the
words and just moved his mouth vaguely in time with the music. It was very
cruel of the cameraman to focus on him and the resulting pictures did
nothing at all to contradict his "Vulcan" image or improve his chances of
becoming leader of the Conservative party. A similar thing apparently
happened to the playwright Dennis Potter who, as a young man, stood as a
Labour candidate in an election. When the local party members launched into
an enthusiastic rendition of "The Red Flag", he was embarrassed not to know
the words.

David Clarke

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language maintenance

Paul, you wrote:

A difficulty emerges when you try to right these past wrongs and
re-introduce the language.  Wales has made great strides in this regard, but
some Welsh people have claimed it is rather artificial as Wales never had a
"Standard Welsh" in the way English or French have standard forms.  Thus to
some areas the Welsh taught in schools is almost like teaching Dutch in
Northern Germany and saying "well, near enough"!

Actually, this is happening already. Clearly, a supra-regional Low Saxon
variety in addition to local ones would go a long way as far as the survival
of the language is concerned. But people won't have it, rather see the
language die.

David:

I don't know about Prince Phillip, but it is possible that Prince Charles
has learnt Greek, as a few years ago, there were rumours that he was going
on secret holidays to monasteries in northern Greece, socialising with the
London Greek community and becoming very interested in the Greek Orthodox
Church. If he switched to the Greek church, this would cause a
constitutional crisis in the UK on a scale that has not been seen since
1936, as the monarch is also the head of the Church of England and is not
allowed by law to be a Roman Catholic, let alone Greek Orthodox.

Well, it's his father's original faith, was a major stumbling block when it
came to marrying Elizabeth, especially as far as the Queen Mother was
concerned (who is rumored to have said a few harsh things about this and his
German "blood"). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Philip secretly or
subconsciously held on to it and this influenced Charles.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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