LL-L "Language Maintenance" 2007.08.08 (03) [E]

Wed Aug 8 19:23:55 UTC 2007

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 August 2007 - Volume 03

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance"

Dear Wesley,

You wrote:
> That's just my 0.02c - thankfully not USD! ;)

Even so, you'll need to write a hundred messages like these to make them
worth 2c in total (2c =0.02 $).
Not exactly what you had in mind I guess? ;=)

Anyway, twas very nice to read how well you were treated by the Maori.

On a sidenote, Western legal systems do sometimes clash with local
customs; I've seen two good examples of this the past few days. Both
were documentaries on Belgian TV, dealing with sexual abuse of
youngsters, one on Pitcairn Island (Polynesia) and the other among
Aboriginal communities in Australia. Surely this is not the place to
discuss these topics, but one thing struck me. On Pitcairn, there used
to be no jail apparently, until a trial was held against seven men.
Before the final judgment was passed, one of the accused, Steve
Christian (ex-mayor, descendant of one of the Bounty mutineers and then
still in liberty) even helped to construct the very prison (similar to
mountain huts)...in which he finally was put. More can be read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_sexual_assault_trial_of_2004

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Mike Wintzer <k9mw at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.08 (02) [E]

 Marcus wrote:
My theory about it is that: There are two types of people. Ideologists
and pragmatists.

Marcus, your essay is not theory. I would like to congratulate you
on your anlysis, which hits the nail on the head for all those cases
that I came into contact with.
But then I take exception to your condoning pragmatism as opposed
to idealism. Why are we LowLanders? Speaking for myself, but I
suspect also for the majority of us: Out of idealism.
Only your last paragraph sort of reconciles me with your contribution.
You write:

The way to rescue a language from disappearing therefore is to take care
that speaking the language will be a pragmatic choice again. The second
way to rescue a language is to convert all pragmatists to ideologists.
The former means establishing the language in all domains of public life
(like Mike Wintzer said too). The second means building a nationalist
movement or at least an strong own national consciousness (which likely
will result in establishing the language in all domains of public life
in the end).

Wonderfully said. But doesn't this mean that there have to be lots and
lots of militants, acting out IDEALISM, to bring about either of the
two ways you identify???

Greetings, Mike Wintzer

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language maintenance

Hi, Mike! You wrote:

But then I take exception to your condoning pragmatism as opposed
to idealism. Why are we LowLanders? Speaking for myself, but I
suspect also for the majority of us: Out of idealism.

I'm not quite sure what your meaning is here.  First of all, by "Lowlanders"
do you mean members of this organization or heirs of Lowlands heritage?

If you mean the latter, of course it's a matter of life's circumstances,
does not include many of our members and thus has nothing to do with
pragmatism or idealism.  So I assume you mean the former.  While you did
leave it up to individualism, den duyvel syn afkaat puts it to you that
probably most are here first and foremost because they are interested which
in itself doesn't have anything to do with pragmatism or idealism either.
Furthermore, going by Marcus' theoretical scheme, and also going by past
exchanges on the List, I would say that we have a mixture of "pragmatists"
and "idealists," yet all of them are interested.

I suppose it boils down to this:

All of us are keen on being observers ("students"), but not all of us are
keen on being activists.

This might go a long way in explaining the occasional frustration,
irritation and crossed wires. Don't you think?

Nevertheless, just as we as individuals of various backgrounds from all over
the world can interact harmoniously and cordially within our association, I
am sure that the same can be said of "pragmatists" and "idealists" among us,
just as long as we accept and respect these differences and the resulting
reactions to various issues.

I feel that Marcus' scheme holds water in a general way. I would like to
add, though, that it is of course very simplified, because there are degrees
involved here.

Let's assume, for instance, that I am an idealist in the sense of believing
that Low Saxon can reassert itself as a secondary language but I find it
overly optimistic (or "too idealistic") to expect that it can regain the
status it had until the 16th or 17th century, and let's say that I base my
"agenda" on this lowered expectation.  I'm not necessarily saying that this
is my true attitude. However, I believe it would be a valid one, probably
based on the belief that "all or nothing" is too big and too risky a step if
compared with "something (at a time)."  Anyway, with such an attitude, would
I be classified as an idealist or as a pragmatist?

Where are the borderlines between "pragmatism" and "pessimism" on the one
hand and between "idealism" and "(pipe-)dreaming" on the other hand?  I'm
pretty sure the borderlines lie in the eyes of the beholder.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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