LL-L "History" 2007.03.26 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 26 March 2007 - Volume 04

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From: john welch <sjswelch at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.03.26 (01) [E]

My agenda is to associate Celtic religion with Sanskrit and Mespotamian
cultures. The Hurrians of Caucasus 1400 BCE possibly had a Sanskrit
leadership. Ukraine was Greater Scythia, which reached Hungary from 450BCE
where Celts were also present.  Sarmatians who reached the Urals are closely
linked with Scythian traditions.  Until last century, Polish cavalry
nobility identified with Scythians.  Vikings /Swedes who ruled Kiev had been
for centuries travelling the rivers of the Amber Roads which Scythians had
viewed as ancestral (Dnieper, Dniester, Don and Donets). In reverse, a
Scythian leadership may have gone north and given their name to a
population, in the manner that Swede "rus" later became "Russian". Eastern
Scythians were "Saka", related to "Sasanians". Celtic "Sassen" means
"Saxon". Probably there were combinations of influences between the Baltic
and Black Seas, with both migration of pirate/warrior-groups and cultural
diffusions.
The mercenary, raiding pirate culture of mobile groups led to the seizing of
east Britain.
Viking Danes. -Starcke (quote)" Judging by archaeological discoveries, the
followers of Hengest and Horsa were a motley crew whom Hengest had collected
from along all the shores of the North Sea: Jutes, Danes, Angles, Saxons,
Frisians and Franks. That Hengest himself came from Denmark, where he had
been in the kings' service, seems certain."(end quote).
The Essex, Sussex and then Wessex land-holdings may have been copies of
the pirate seizure of Jutland sites as "Sachsen" domains.
The Scythians were "degraded Brahmins" as they did not honour the Vedic
Brahmins. Possibly "bram" /brahm/ became a generic term for famous pirate
-chiefs etc., with other Brahmin traditions being joined with local
religions.
This appears to apply to Vikings, Celts and Saxons .
John Welch

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Thanks for the clarification, John.

I am pretty open-minded when it comes to hypotheses about Eurasian
migration, and I'm pretty sure that what we do know is only the tip of the
iceberg and that what we don't know is not only due to lack of evidence but
is also due to limited thinking.  By the same token, I need a fairly nice
bundle of clues and circumstantial evidence to jump on any bandwagon.
Nevertheless, my hat up to those that dare to think and search outside the
box.

I'm not sure if you are aware the story about the name "Saxon."  At least
for the benefit of others that don't know this let me say that it is
generally accepted that the name -- Sahso in Old Saxon -- comes from sahs,
the name for the Saxons' characteristic short sword (or long knife).

Old Saxon: sahs
Old Low Franconian: sahs
Old Frisian: sax
Old German: sahs
Old Norse: sax
Gothic: sax

Cognates in Old Norse and Gothic make it hardly likely that we are dealing
with a Saxon loan in all those languages.

Related to this is the Old Saxon word sahar 'reed grass' (Carectum, Papyrio),
apparently grass that was cut on a regular basis.  In fact, at the root of
all of this is Germanic *sagja- 'to cut' from Indo-European *sek- (related
to Romance *sek- as in "section"). (I am not sure if Danish plural
sakserand Scandinavian cognates for 'scissors' are native or are based
on Saxon
loans.)  The sahs was thus a "cutter."

> Eastern Scythians were "Saka", related to "Sasanians".

There are also the historic Iranian-speaking Saka of what is now the north
of Eastern Turkestan (China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region).

Another ethnicity that calls itself Sakha (Saxa) is the Turkic-speaking
Yakuts.  They live in the northeast of Siberia and their ancestry goes back
to Central Asia.  Their language has undergone mostly Mongolic and
"Paleo-Asiatic" influences (besides recent Russian influences), is in some
ways innovative and in other ways conservative.  The "s" in Sakha has the
equivalent "y" in other Turkic languages (hence with plural -t:Yakıt ~
Yaqıt~ Yakut
~ Yaqut), though the "s" is present also in Chuvash, the descendant of Old
Bolgar which branched off just prior to the splitting off of the Turkic
branch from proto-Altaic.  (E.g., the word for 'way', 'road': Yakut suol,
Chuvash sol, elsewhere yol or jol.)

I don't think anyone really knows what Yakut "Sakha" means (and I can only
think of Turkic yak- 'join', 'connect' and equivalents), I think, or the
Iranian names "Saka", "Sakha" and "Sassanide".  But we are pretty sure of
the meaning of "Saxon," which, by the way, is also n. Sass(e) and adj.
sassisch in most dialects of Modern Low Saxon, the direct descendant of Old
Saxon.

Anyway, good luck, John!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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