LL-L "Language varietiess" 2007.11.27 (06) [E]

Tue Nov 27 23:21:05 UTC 2007

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  26 November 2007 - Volume 06
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.11.25 (07) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> Hi, Luc!
>
> As far as I know -- and our British friends no doubt will correct me
> if I'm wrong -- the educational system in British was tweaked quite
> some time ago to be more tolerant with regard to local and regional
> language varieties. In other words, teachers no longer correct
> students (pupils) at every turn but permit use of local varieties. You
> will notice that even media reporters' language comes in quite some
> variety, as does the English of people interviewed, why, even that of
> members of the House of Commons. You are not necessarily considered
> poorly educated by everyone if you don't speak "posh," and not
> speaking "posh" may even allow you to win more hearts. You may have
> noticed (even though you may be too young) that class distinctions and
> stigmas are melting away in Britain, and the more relaxed linguistic
> atmosphere may well be one of the signs of this.

No, I wouldn't correct you on this. It's certainly true that no-one here
would be bothered about the accent or dialect someone speaks in,
including Scottish and British-Asian dialects, as long as it's
comprehensible. Nor would they be bothered about it being
incomprehensible (eg Welsh, Scots, Somerset) as long as they're not
expected to understand it.

One no longer hears scolding about dropped "h"s, th->f/v or anything
like that. The only people I've heard complaining about it recently have
all been visitors to the country or recent immigrants. If a British
person reacted in this way to an accent, I'd prpobably try to connect it
to personality traits (irritability or something) rather than the idea
that people should speak in a certain way.

This needs to be qualified with the fact that my perception of the
oral-linguistic ambience is somewhat rarefied, but on the other hand,
being deaf, people often do describe other people's accents to me, and I
can lipread accents to some extent, so it's not all that rarefied.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.11.25 (05) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> local language, many will find this very strange, because they have
> come to believe that their language is private and improper, that you
> as an outsider should not be involved in it. When a foreigner,
> especially an "exotic-looking" one, speaks "dialect," many people will
> point this out as an amusing anomaly.

It's certainly true that there's a tradition of Scots speakers having a
healthy interest in foreigners, or "exotic-looking" Scots, being
involved in speaking Scots or participating in Scots culture in general.

An example from WWII is in George MacDonald Fraser's "McAuslan" series
of books where there's a story about a Black soldier in a Scottish
regiment who joins the pipe band. To people of 60 years ago this looked
very odd and raised serious questions but the eventual conclusion was
that he was a good piper and that was what mattered.

In the village where I grew up we had one Black man, who spoke Scots
exactly like us and was an Elder of the kirk (which may have been an
early example of positive discrimination, or not). To me this made a
lasting impression that Black people are just like me and scientifically
(as opposed to politically) speaking, there's no such thing as a Black
accent or language or White accent or language, everybody is the same in
this respect.

In the 1960s/70s TV series "Dad's Army" there's an episode where the
Scottish member of the group is ranting about the fact that the English
captain will regret trying to preside over the haggis at a celebratory
dinner. In the end it turns out that the Englishman could play the
bagpipes, which I remember amusing us tremendously: of course English
people can play the pipes, if they learn it!

In the 70's or 80's I remember a popular clip on Scottish TV of a young
boy singing "Auld Lang Syne" in perfect Scots. The camera starts at his
feet and moves up past his socks, flashers, kilt and jacket, and finally
his face is seen and he's Chinese. Not necessarily foreign, of course.

One of the really big Scottish events of the year is the Edinburgh
Tattoo, which is watched avidly by traditional Scots all over the
country when it's shown on TV. Although based around the idea of
Scottish regimental piping traditions, it's full of guest bands from
many other countries showing how this sort of thing is done more "exotic
looking" people than us plain-faced Scots  :)

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks, Sandy.

When I was a kid, two of our local Lutheran churches were involved in an
international pastoral exchange program. One of the churches had a visiting
pastor from Ghana for about one year, a native speaker of Twi. The other
church had a youngish pastor and his family from Hong Kong, Cantonese
speakers, for quite a long time, at least three years, I'd say. Already upon
arrival both pastors were quite conversant in German and were able to
conduct services and deliver sermons in German. Apparently they had attended
German seminaries. The one from Hong Kong, being rather gregarious, picked
up some Low Saxon. I have a feeling he did this as an extra effort to break
through the remaining ice. The one from Ghana also picked up some local
expressions with which he'd occasionally startle and amuse folks. However,
the novelty and amusement factors soon wore off.

I remember that some oldies found these visitations rather strange at first,
but I think it was just the novelty of the idea of "missionaries in
reverse," if you get my drift. However, it took both pastors very little
time to win over lots of hearts. I suspect that their linguistic efforts
played at least minor roles.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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