LL-L "Delectables" 2008.02.03 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

=========================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L  -  03 February 2008 - Volume 05
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page.
=========================================================================

From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.01 (03) [D/E]

> From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (05) [E]

[...]
> The evolution in English is interesting; first
> man/wer/wif for respectively
> mankind/man/woman. Then "wer" became obsolete and
> was replaced by "man".
> "Wif" became "wif-man" > "woman".
[...]

Hi,

I think it is safe to say that Oldgermanic *man* and
*mens* were designations for both men and women. [And
with some phantasy: maybe *man* was used for the
adults.]
So Oldenglish "wif-man" > "woman" is fully
understandable.

There are traces left:
In Icelandic 'maður' still indicates man and woman.
Worldwide in translations this is not well understood;
so in the phrase 'Það er maður á veginum' in
general they translate 'there is a man on the road'
instead of 'there is someone on the road'. If you want
to say 'man' -and the context is not explicit- you
have to say something like: 'karlsmaður'.

Moreover: I think that the old 'neutral' connotation
of *man* and *mens* are still surviving in old
expressions in germanic languages, e.g. in dutch 'een
manshoog paard' = 'a horse as high as a person'.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

----------

From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.01 (03) [D/E]

Hi,

Thanks, Reinhard and others, for all the information
about swedes/rutabagas.
Maybe they will be more digestive in future.

We may not forget that in Germany they are also known
as „Mecklenburger Ananas"; so the people in
Mecklenburg are real gourmets.

But -I hesitate to ask- but is there some brilliance
left among our lowlands-colleagues to say something
sensible about a other lowlandish word for swedes:
Wruken. Any idea of the word-family?

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Theo.

There isn't much brilliance wanting to come out right now ...

You want sensible? I can only think of *wrukken* (*wrucken*) 'to struggle'
(originally 'to fight'). Are swedes hard to get out of the ground by any
chance, so that you need to *wruk* with them or *wruk* them out?  Apparently
it's *wruk* or *wruuk* depending on dialects. I know that these words are
used in dialects of Mecklenburg and farther east.

Ah ... but wait! Is that some brilliance I'm sensing? It is!!! It must be a
Slavic loan!

Swede/Rutabaga:
Belarusan: *б**ручка bručka*
Russian: *брюква brjukva*
Polish: *brukiew*
     and ... tadah!
Kashubian: *wrëk* [vrək]

And in some areas (which?) in Germany swedes are called *Dorschen*. I have
no idea about this one.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.02 (03) [E]

Ron  Hahn wrote:    But then we have German *Mangel* 'lack', 'deficiency'
and the corresponding verb *mangeln* 'to lack',

We also used 'manky' in the 50-60s at school and college - tho' I haven't
heard it too often recently. In my mind it was connected with the French '
il manque quelque chose' = something's missing. In my mind's eye it was
spelt 'manquey' !!!

Anything that was 'off' or wasn't quite right was described as 'manky' often
'a manky old ....' it could be a cat or a car or sandwich.

I cannot remember ever having see it written. A real piece of oral vocab.

Heather

----------

From: wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.02 (03) [E]
Dutch, mankeren

[Wim Verdoold]

----------

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.02 (01) [E]

> From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
>
> Lowlanders
>
> On the issue of turnips or swedes - in Northumberland
> and I think other parts of northern England
> swedes/turnips are sometimes referred to as 'bagies',
> a link with rutabaga? Don't know.

That explains something I've always wondered about: in Scotland
halloween lanterns made from swedes are called "baggy lanterns".

But swedes themselves are called "turneeps", "neeps", "tumshies" or
"numshies". Halloween lanterns are also often called "tumshie lanterns".

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080203/6e9d9e84/attachment.htm>