LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.18 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 18 July 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.17 (02) [E]

> From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2008.07.16 (03) [E]

> Similarly Chinese sees a verb as a single action without time so has
> no tenses. To indicate time a time phrase is used. Brilliant
> linguistic logic. If I am going to use the word Tomorrow why do I need
> a verb in a future tense ( and increasingly in some languages you
> don't  .. Ich gehe morgen  I'm going tomorrow, je vais demain)  If I
> use the phrase 200 years ago , why do I need a past tense, the
> idea/concept is obvious from the phrase.

There is one reason for wanting an actual past tense, I suppose, and
that's that it's a lot harder to be dishonest! In some languages such
things as time phrases and even plurals are sometimes expressed through
context (ie, if you _don't_ use the time phrase, another speaker of the
language might naturally assume that it's because the time span is
already understood), if you're trying to make out that you've done
something when really, it's on your to-do list, in some languages maybe
you can get away with it more easily.

It's like how in gender-specific languages it's a lot harder to say to
your wife, "I'm going out with a friend tonight" without letting on that
it's a woman friend. If your wife suspects something, she doesn't need
to confront you, she just needs to keep you talking til you use a
pronoun. Even if you refer to your friend as "they", you're on very
shaky ground!

I think context is a missing dimension in this discussion. We're saying
that languages tend to need more syntax if they have fewer inflections,
and vice versa, but there's also the fact that languages may need less
of either if they make more use of context.

You could consider the case of the noun "sheep" in English. You may say
"that sheep" and "those sheep" to distinguish the singular and plural
(showing, incidentally, that plurals are expendable in English), but you
might say "the sheep on the hill" or "the sheep I took to the vet", and
not bother with distinguishing the plural because you know the other
person knows some of the story, or because you would have probably
clarified if there had been only one sheep on the hill or more than one
at the vet's.

In some languages such as Malay, this is the normal way of treating
plurals and other things: the grammar is dropped if the context
suffices.

Similarly in English, the present and future tenses are merged and you
can get away with saying, "All right, I'm going to the shops" and
quietly thinking "maybe tomorrow", but you can't so easily say you've
_been_ to the shops if you haven't!

I wonder if this supports something of Jonny's assertion that more
grammar means clearer communication? At least it would seem that the
more grammar is compulsory rather than optional, the less you can get
away with in terms of deliberately fudging your communication.

Of course another missing dimension here is "discourse": if accuracy
matters, people will presumably try to ensure that they're not depending
too heavily on context.

Maybe we should stop and make a list of _every_ element of expression:
grammar, syntax, context, discourse, metaphor...

Heather: BSL grammar is actually a bit like Chinese in this respect, you
say a time phrase and everything you say is understood to take place in
that time, until you say another time phrase. After the time phrase you
can also say a place, to the same effect. "Last weekend Pylle a huge
explosion, Glastonbury festival inaccessible, next three days A37
closed."

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

•

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