LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.11 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 11 June 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.06.11 (02) [E]

 "The gobblidigook characters are due to you using the online interface."

 So now it's my fault ?! For as long as I know, I've read and answered LLL
 messages from the Archives, if that's what you mean, because I don't want
 my mailbox to be filled with hundreds of emails everyday... from this and
 other groups. And I'm not interested in all subjects either, so now I can
 pick them.

 As you mention Westphalian and Eastphalian, not having apocope, we come
 back to "Language Varieties" of a couple of days ago, when I stated we
 might rather speak of Low Saxon languages than of A Low Saxon langage.

 Both "Phalians" could be seen (together) as such a LS language, different
 from e.g. the Northern Low Saxon language, consisting of the dialects of
 Hamburg, Bremen, Schleswig Holstein, Ost-Friesland etc. etc.

 In the Netherlands, the Achterhoek (=East Gelderland) and Twente (=East
 Overyssel) LS dialects, together with Germany's Westmünsterland and
 Bentheim dialects, which I call "Hamaland LS"  can be seen as a transition
 between the Phalian LS language and the dialects of the West Dutch Low
 Saxon language of the Veluwe, Salland (= West Overyssel), South East
 Drenthe and Stellingwarvian (S.E. Friesland). But one could also state
 that this latter Western group is the transition to real Dutch dialects
 already, because of the many features shared with Dutch such as oe [u:]
 for oo [o:]/ ou [OU] in boek, ie [i:] for ee [e:], ei [EI] in niet, uu
 [y:] for eu [2:] / ui [9Y] in gruun, uu [y] for oe [u] in uut, the lack
 of 'du', e- in edaon for daon (Dutch gedaan) etc, verb order: dat ik bin
 egaon for dat ik gaon bin. Something typically Franconian is "ou", "oe"
 instead of "jou", "joe" you.

 Central and South East Drenthe LS dialects (NL) can be seen as
 transitional to yet another Low Saxon language, that of Groningen and
 North Drenthe, to which the East Frisian dialects seem to belong as well.

 Ingmar
 From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Phonology

 Ingmar,

 My examples are limited to those North Saxon varieties that do have
 apocope.
 Even within this group there are those that do not have it, especially
 those
 at the geographic periphery. Most varieties of the Eastphalian and
 Westphalian groups do not have apocope, the latter and the southwestern
 North Saxon varieties bordering on those of most Low Saxon varieties of the
 Netherlands, having been on a continuum with them.

 This is quite consistent with what you wrote:

 In Achterhoek, Veluwe, Salland, Stellingwarves, South Drenthe Low Saxon, -
 e is not deleted. In Northern Drenthe, Groningen and (partly) Twente, it is

 Regards,
 Reinhard/Ron

 P.S.: The gobblidigook characters are due to you using the online
 interface.

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 From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Phonology

Ingmar:

 So now it's my fault ?!

Did I say that? I think not. I was just pointing out to you and others
what's happening, that the archive submission interface has that drawback
when it comes to "special" characters.

The same applies to mail from accounts that process messages in HTML mode
with colors and various other bells and whistles.

Reinhard/Ron
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