LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.27 (06) [EN]

Sun Jun 27 23:00:52 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 27 June 2010 - Volume 05
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From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at mweb.co.za>

Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.26 (02) [EN]

Hi everyone,

Vlad, a few short tales on the subject:

-In 1997, on a flight from Amsterdam back to SA, I sat next to two men whose
German discussions I followed quietly all the way.

At some stage, I needed to leave my window seat to go to the bathroom and
spoke to them in German but the one said to the other (in the same
language), ‘She thinks we’re speaking German...” I am still flabbergasted
and can only guess they were speaking Low Saxon/Plaut.

-One of my sister’s daughters is in Rhode Island. She was recently surprised
that her four-year old grandson spoke fluent American with his daddy and
fluent Afrikaans with my niece, and on the same topic. He only started
speaking fluently a year or so ago and interestingly knows that he could
converse in Afrikaans with his mommy, ouma and oupa on the phone, and his
aunt in San Diego.

-My friend over the road has a three-year old granddaughter who knows
exactly that her daddy and his extended family speak Afrikaans and her mommy
and her extended family speak Sotho.

Cheerio,

Elsie Zinsser

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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>

Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.25 (01) [AF-EN]

> From: Obiter Dictum <obiterdictum at mail.ru>

> Subject: Language Proficiency

> Roger Thijs wrote on 2006.07.19:
> “I don't know whether it is beginning senility, but I often cannot
remember in what language a conversation has been held or what the original
language of a program was.”

Today I was in Wervik and Wervicq-Sud. The first is in Belgium,
West-Flanders, the second is in France, Dept du Nord. They are separated by
the river Leie/Lys and a little bridge of 50 m long.

Similar to what one sees in Comines-France and Comines-Komen,-Belgium, 2.5
miles to the South, France is death on a Sunday evening, while Belgium is
very much alive, at least for the bars and little restaurants.

I had some fries with a crisly at the Belgian side of the bridge in Wervik
this evening, and half of the people queuing for fries came from over the
bridge, out of Wervicq in France.

The spoken languages used by the staff of the "frituur":

- 1 - West-Flemisch (very loudly, "joat", "joat", ..)

- 2 - French

The written languages inside the frituur

- Dutch

- just a few translations into French.

Here language switching is standard, and since they do not always remember
who ordered what, mistakes are made and corrected. But that is an OR-OR
behavior: OR West-Flemisch OR Standard-French, no creolized intermediate
language.

What I was referring to in 2006 were French-Dutch interlaying situations.

Example: at the "De Post - La Poste" (headquarters of "Belgian Mail") all
staff speaks their own language but understands the other's language. This
gives a mix.

When I do an assignment there I preferably adjust to the language of my
contact (unless the contact asks me for sticking to my own language, for
him/her to learn a bit more of Duitch).

So I'm mixing two rules of behaviour, and depending on developped relations
the switching is uncounscously automatical. After facts I do often not
remember what rules I followed nor what language I spoke.

Uncounsious switching has nothing to do with language proficiency or
quality. Nor my Dutch nor my French is perfect (but none of the two is a
creolized mixture).

My spoken languages:

- Limburgish, Lonenlands from Vliermaal. The language of my birth village of
Vliermaal and my father's language. Errors I make: incidentally some
Limburgish from Schalkhoven, my mother's language. In Vliermaal dogs
"blaffen", in Schalkhoven, one mile to the East, dogs "beilen".

- Limburgish, Tongerrlands from Tongeren, the language of the town where I
did middle school. However for some reason others do not identify me
speaking "downtown Tongerlands" but rather "Tongerlands of the suburb
Nerem". I don't know enough about Nerem for explaining this.

- Belgian Dutch, not completely free from Limburgish intonation, and
socially colored with quite some Brabantish idioms (I lived for a long time
in Antwerp-Mortsel, and now East of Brussels. Speaking too correct is
considered snobbish in Brabant.)

- Standard Dutch when I talk to Dutchmen, but they easily recognize me
coming from Belgium.

- Belgian French, some say they recognize a Liège intonation, but I cannot
explain this.

- German "with hairs"

- English "with hairs".

I can maintain a consistent syntax within each of these variants, but I may
switch oncounsciously (this is not mixing languages into a creole, but real
switching).

How language selection can be triggerred by external factors:

In the eightires my mother was taken into hospital in Antwerp after she got
a strole.

She spoke Limburgish with me but curiously French with the Antwerp hospital
staff.

40 years earlier she had been working in the Saint-Joseph hospital in Liège,
where French is the language.

Regards,

Roger

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