[Lowlands-l] Is the list alive? Here is a linguist question!

[Lowlands Languages & Cultures]

Hi Marlou,

I am sorry for the confusion! My reply was also an answer to Michael
Morgan's message.

There, if I am not mistaken, he proposes that our 'path word' may be of
Latin origin, while acknowledging that this origin does not account for the
loss of _n_ in Latin _pons_ acc. pons, acc. _pontem_, etc. A Slavic origin
would account for the it, but this in turn would yield some semantic
problems. So I proposed the Eastern Iranian origin.

Best regards,

Marcel.




Op 18 jul. 2017 9:04 p.m. schreef "Lowlands Languages & Cultures" <
lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>:

"This explains the loss of the nasal." -- I'm sorry for being so ignorant,
dear Marcel, but where is a nasal in any of these words? I am just trying
to understand...

Hartlich

Marlou

Am 18.07.2017 um 14:52 schrieb Lowlands Languages & Cultures:

Good afternoon, all, Michael,

Indeed, High German _Pfad_, Dutch _pad_, and English _path_ did not enter
these languages through the normal *path*. According to my tutor Michael de
Vaan it entered the Germanic languages through an Eastern Iranian language,
and not through Latin.

It must have entered the Germanic languages after Grimm's Law turned PIE p-
into f-, otherwise we would have had English *fath and Dutch *vad.
Cf. Old Avestan _patha_ 'way'. This explains the loss of the nasal.

The European plains have had visits from several Eastern Iranian tribes
such as the Sarmatians, who were dwelling in the Pontic steppe through
which they had access to these plains.

Best regards,

Marcel.

Op 18 jul. 2017 8:11 a.m. schreef "Lowlands Languages & Cultures" <
lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>:

to put it into wider-than-Germanic perspective, the word is definitely
Indo-European: cf Russian  путь, Old Church Slavoinc пѫть, Sanskrit पथः,
and English path, Anglo-Saxon pæþ, Dutch pad, and German Pfad, all with
basically the same meaning path, way, course, route. Indo-European would
have been *panthis. And the common link with Latin pons, acc. pontem, etc
would indicate maybe an even more basic meaning of the rood "how to get
from here to there"

And, matching well with what Marcel said above about (High) German words
starting in *p, IE roots in *p- do not normally give German words in in *p
(ratehr, like Pfad, they give words in *pf-), indicating that, although
common Indo-European, and with Germanic cognates, the German*p words got
into German not by the normal path (excuse the pun) but through borrowing
(in this case no doubt from Latin, though it could conceivably come form
Low German... though the nasal would tend to indicate Latin not Low German.
If the loan were very very early, then Slavic might also conceivably be a
source, but given the sense of the word, this seems unlikely)


Dr Michael W Morgan
mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || માઈક || মাঈক || மாஈக ||  مایک ||мика ||
戊流岸マイク
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist / Deaf education consultant
"Have language, will travel"
=====================================
"People who are always looking down at the bottom line will always fail to
see the stars"


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