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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Lowlands-L <lowlands-l@lowlands-l.net><BR>To: LOWLANDS-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:57:58 PM<BR>Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.10.31 (11) [E]<BR><BR>
<DIV>======================================================================<BR>L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226<BR><A href="http://www.lowlands-l.net/" target=_blank>http://www.lowlands-l.net</A> * lowlands-l@lowlands-l.net<BR>Rules & Guidelines: <A href="http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules" target=_blank>http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules</A><BR>Posting: lowlands@listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l@lowlands-l.net<BR>Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv@listserv.net<BR>Server Manual: <A href="http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html" target=_blank>http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html</A><BR>Archives: <A href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html" target=_blank>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html</A><BR>Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]<BR>Administration: lowlands-l@lowlands-l.com or
sassisch@yahoo.com<BR>=======================================================================<BR>You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.<BR>To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message<BR>text from the same account to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or<BR>sign off at <A href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html" target=_blank>http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html</A>.<BR>=======================================================================<BR>A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian<BR>L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian<BR>S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)<BR>=======================================================================<BR><BR>L O W L A N D S - L * 31 October 2006 * Volume 10<BR>======================================================================<BR><BR>> <BR>Hi Luc,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for commenting on my remarks concerning stress shift. The more I think of it the more I realize that the situation in Flemish Belgium is far from consistent as to the stressing of foreign (French) names. Two examples come to my mind now. Two of the aunts I had in Melkwezer (East-Brabant) were called Maria and Julia. The names were pronounced with the stress firmly on the final vowel 'a'. Where I live (Diest) two of my acquaintances carry the same name, but both names have the stress on the <U>first</U> syllable! It is true that Diest is further away from the linguistic border, but I'm not sure if that carries any weight here. </DIV>
<DIV>I went through the telephone directory (the portion for Diest). The following French family names are pronounced with the stress on the 1st syllable: Delobel, Demanet, Derison, Dujardin, Dumortier, Dumoulin, Nicasi, Renson, Renty, Rethy.</DIV>
<DIV>Are pronounced like in French: Delporte, Deltour, Delvigne, Deprez, De Reze, De Roy, Dubois, Ducomble, Dumont, Dupont and all other French names.</DIV>
<DIV>It now strikes me that in the first group (Delobel, etc) the names with De- and Du- all have <U>three</U> syllables, all of them having a clear vowel in the last syllable, in contrast with names in the second group which have either two syllables or three, of which the last one has a mute e.</DIV>
<DIV>There are two special cases: Bonroy (I heard older people pronounce it as /<U>bon</U>roei/) and Ja<U>cob</U> (pronounced exactly as a French name!) (whereas Jacobs is pronounced in the Dutch way.</DIV>
<DIV>I don't see any other rationale behind the pronunciation of French names.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kind regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Roger Hondshoven</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Guess it must be a geographical thing then my neighborhood (Western<BR>Brabant), both young and old still seem to say "Mèrcedes" and not "Mercédes".<BR>Same goes for some people I happen to know in Bruges, but I admit they're not<BR>exactly spring chickens anymore :-D . I think it could well be that Northern<BR>Dutch/German influence primarily enters Belgium through the provinces of Antwerp<BR>and Limburg, before moving south-west.<BR><BR>You're right about Flemish often shifting stress in French (and other foreign)<BR>words/names to the first syllable, but around Brussels this is much less the<BR>case, e.g.:<BR><BR>in the rest of Belgium, "Maria" is often heard as "Marìa" or "Mària", but here we<BR>say "Marjà"<BR>"Louisa" is always "Louisà" around here<BR>same for "Leona", being pronounced like "Leonà"<BR>"auto" becomes "ottò"<BR>"Opel" is always "Opèl"<BR>...<BR><BR>Surely this is due to Brussels and Wallonia, which are both within range of<BR>Halle, the
city where I'm living. That's why it struck me all the more that<BR>precisely in this border region, people were stressing the first syllable in<BR>"Mercedes".<BR><BR>Kind greetings,<BR><BR>Luc Hellinckx<BR><BR>PS: Pronunciations I mention are those of genuine dialect speakers, not of people<BR>speaking a mishmash that I'd like to label "Missingsch-Flemish". <BR><BR>==============================END===================================<BR>* Please submit postings to lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org.<BR>* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.<BR>* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.<BR>* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are<BR> to be sent to listserv@listserv.linguistlist.org or at<BR> <A href="http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html"
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