L O W L A N D S - L - 04 January 2007 - Volume 03<br>======================================================================<br><br>From: <a href="mailto:JRodenburg@aol.com">JRodenburg@aol.com</a><br>Subject: Names<br><br>Thank you Ron for raising the issue of pronouncing names. For reference,
<br><br>Cairo, Illinois is pronounce Kay - row.<br>New Berlin, Illinois is New ber LIN.<br>And there a few other counterintuitive Illinois place names.<br><br>I have a similar issue to raise: pronunciation of peoples names especially
<br>last names. My own name Rodenburg for instance is pronounced differently in high<br>German. I don't know what the low German pronunciation is.<br><br>When my grandfather and his brother came to America, one kept the spelling of
<br>his last name Schröder (now Schroder) and other changed it to Schroeder in an<br>effort to keep the pronunciation correct. It didn't work. Both names are<br>commonly pronounced as you would say them in English.<br>
<br>Can any guide by given to low German family name pronunciation?<br><br>Thanks for listening.<br><br>Viele Grüße aus Illinois<br>John Rodenburg<br>Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)<br>Brunkhorst (Stemmen, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)
<br>Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),<br>Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)<br>Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)<br>Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin),<br>Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)<br>Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
<br>Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)<br><br>----------<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">From:<span style=""> </span>R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Names<br>
<br>
Hi, John! Good to hear from you.<br>
<br>
> My own name Rodenburg for instance is pronounced differently in high<br>
> German. I don't know what the low German pronunciation is.<br>
<br>
It depends on the dialect. It would be written either as <i>Rodenborg</i> or as
<i>Raudenborg</i> and pronounced ['ro<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑʊ</span>dn<span lang="ZH-CN">̩</span>b<span lang="ZH-CN">ɔː</span>x] or ['ra<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑʊ</span>dn<span lang="ZH-CN">̩</span>b<span lang="ZH-CN">ɔː
</span>x], using English-type spelling
for non-linguists something like "ROE-dn-bawkh" and "ROW-dn-bawkh"
respectively ("oe" as in "d<span style="text-decoration: underline;">oe</span>", "ow" as in "c<span style="text-decoration: underline;">ow</span>", <span style="font-style: italic;">
kh</span> as in "lo<span style="text-decoration: underline;">ch</span>").
Considering the predominance of the areas of Hanover
and Mecklenburg in your family's origin, I'd
put my money on the second pronunciation.<br>
<br>
Mind you, "Rodenburg" seems to be a semi-germanized form, "Rotenburg"
being "proper" German.<br><br>Many people with this name in Poland had their surname Raudenburg ~ Rautenburg polonized, typically to </span>Garczynski or Klinski. I don't know what the Kashubian equivalents are.
<br><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">
<br>
> When my grandfather and his brother came to America, one kept the spelling of<br>
> his last name Schröder (now Schroder) and other changed it to Schroeder in
an<br>
> effort to keep the pronunciation correct. It didn't work. Both names are<br>
> commonly pronounced as you would say them in English.<br>
<br>
I know Americans that pronounce the name Schroeder as "SHROE-dr" and
others that pronounce it as "SHREY-dr" -- and I include in this their
own names.<span style=""> </span>In German and Low Saxon names,
<i>ö</i> is sometimes rendered as "ey" in American English.<br>
<br>
The name comes from Low Saxon and Middle German Schrader ~ Schrœder ( the
latter originally with an open, lax "œ" as in French <i>cœur</i>) 'tailor'<span style="">. Ultimately it goes back to an old verb </span><i style="">schraden</i><span style=""> '</span>to cut', and this is related to English "shred."
<span style=""> </span>The equivalent German name is Schneider (from
<i>schneiden</i> 'to cut').<br>
<br>
> Can any guide by given to low German family name pronunciation?<br>
<br>
> Brunkhorst (Stemmen, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)<br>
<span style=""> </span>['br<span lang="ZH-CN">ʊŋ</span>kh<span lang="ZH-CN">ɔˑ</span>st] (BROONK-hawst)<br>
<br>
> Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),<br>
<span style=""> </span>['v<span lang="ZH-CN">ɛː</span>n<span lang="ZH-CN">ɝ</span>] (VAI(R)-nuh) probably German<br>
<br>> Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)<br>
<span style=""> </span>[sta<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑɪ</span>nke]
(STINE-key)<br> Diminutive of "stone"?<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">Germanicizations of Slavonic Pomeranian (Kashubian) <span style="font-style: italic;"><br> kamiónka</span> "little stone"?<br></span>
<br><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";">> Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)<br>
<span style=""> </span>German/Germanized: ['kra<span lang="ZH-CN">ʊ</span>z<span lang="ZH-CN">ə</span>] (KROW-zuh)<br>
<span style=""> </span>Low Saxon <i>Kruuse</i> ~ <i>Kruus'</i>
['kru<span lang="ZH-CN">ː</span>ze] ~ [kru<span lang="ZH-CN">ːˑ</span>z]
(KREW-z(ey))<br> (I suspect the actor Tom Cruise to have this one, or Spanish <span style="font-style: italic;">Cruz</span>.)<br> Originally "the frizzy-haired one"?<br>
<br>
> Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin)<br>
<span style=""> </span>German ['<span lang="ZH-CN">ʃ</span>rø<span lang="ZH-CN">ː</span>d<span lang="ZH-CN">ɚ</span>]<br>
<span style=""> </span>Low Saxon ['<span lang="ZH-CN">ʃ</span>rœ<span lang="ZH-CN">ː</span>d<span lang="ZH-CN">ɝ</span>] (SHRU(R)-duh)<br>
<br>
> Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)<br>
<span style=""> </span>German ['ma<span lang="ZH-CN">ɪɚ</span>]
(MIE-uh)<br>
<span style=""> </span>Low Saxon ['ma<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑɪɝ</span>]
(MIE-ah)<br>
<br>
> Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)<br>
<span style=""> </span>It's German -- [<span lang="ZH-CN">ʦʊ</span>m'mal<span lang="ZH-CN">ə</span>n] (tsoom MAH-lun)<br>
<span style=""> </span>If it came from Low Saxon, I'd guess
it was:<br>
<span style=""> </span>Ton'n Mallen [to<span lang="ZH-CN">ʊ</span>n'ma<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑ</span>ln<span lang="ZH-CN">̩</span>] (tone MAHLN)<br>
<span style=""> </span>and this seems to mean "by the
crazy one,"<br>
<span style=""> </span>"at the crazy one's,"
"where the crazy one lives"<br>
<br>
> Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)<br>
<span style=""> </span>['rø<span lang="ZH-CN">ːɝ</span>da<span lang="ZH-CN">ˑ</span>n(t)s]? (RU(R)-dun(t)s)<br>
<span style=""> </span>perhaps derived from a Slavonic Pomeranian name</span></p>
I hope this helped.<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br>