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<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 03 March 2007 - Volume 07</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_snepvangers@optushome.com.au" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Peter Snepvangers <<a href="mailto:snepvangers@optushome.com.au">
snepvangers@optushome.com.au</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.04 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<p>From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Theo
Homan < <a href="mailto:theohoman@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">theohoman@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>Subject:
LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]<br><br><span>> From: R. F.
Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject:
Idiomatica<br></span><span><br>> While most European languages now
distinguish "bell" <br>> and "clock," Low Saxon<br>> and Icelandic (and
Faeroese?) belong to the modern<br>> ones that use the same<br>> word in
all contexts:</span><br><br>In Icelandic in all contexts? <br>Who told you
so?<br><br><a href="http://vr.gr/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vr.gr</a>.<br>
</p><div style="direction: ltr;"><span>Theo Homan</span><span><br><br></span>From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">"<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>"</span>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>></span><br>Subject:
LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]<br></div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">
<p>Ron wrote</p>
<p>Old English: <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">belle
~ clucge</span><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">
</span><br>Old Frisian: <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">klokke</span><br>Old Saxon: ?<br>Old L. Frank.: ?<br>Old German: <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">glokka
~ scella ~ skilla</span><br>Old Norse: <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"><span style="font-weight: bold;">bjalla ~ k</span>lokka</span><br>Gothic: <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-weight: bold;">skilla</span></span></p></div></blockquote>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">How can there have been a word for something that
didn't exist ?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">Clocks were not invented until .... 13th / 14th
century.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">So it's hard to see how these early languages would
have had a word for one.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">My understanding was that the word for a celtic bell
i.e. one made by folded iron to give the traditional shape of a Swiss cow bell (
rather than a round bell by casting) was loaned from the Irish word for cloak
because the outline shape of the bell looked like a man in a long
cloak.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">The Romans also pinched the word and the item
(cloak)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">When the Irish missionaries went to Germany they took
their Celtic Christian language with them including 'clocca' = bell; this became
German 'Glocke'.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">When clocks were invented in Germany they were called
Glockenuhr because a bell struck the hour.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">The item was exported to the English, who promptly
shortened this long word and dubbed the new invention a 'clock'.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">Welsh and Irish then brorrowed both item and word
'cloc'</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">So what started as an Irish cloak came back in the
guise of a clock Welsh 'cloc' ( Sorry not sure what the Irish is)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">One of my favourite language stories !</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">Heather</font></div><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">
<div dir="ltr"><br>Hello Ron, Theo, Heather and Lowlanders,</div>
</font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">I may be wrong but didn't the Greeks use water clocks
around 1,000BC with geared clock faces not too different to our western pre
digital clock faces. Astronomically they already divided the circle into 360
degrees, knew all about 60 minutes in an hour (from Horus, the
Egyptian sun - day - God). These water clocks could operate day and night
(unlike the old sundials). The Romans borrowed so many things from the Greeks so
it would not surprise me if they had names for clocks and rang a bell in the
town square or somewhere to designate the time. The Roman name
for waterclock may have been the same name for bell.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="2">Best regards</font></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="sg">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2">Peter Snepvangers</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><a href="mailto:snepvangers@optushome.com.au" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">snepvangers@optushome.com.au</a></font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2">Sydney Australia</font></div></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
•
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