<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 26 March 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_lgranberg@usa.com" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Larry Granberg <<a href="mailto:lgranberg@usa.com">lgranberg@usa.com
</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: plattdeutsch</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Ron would be more able to comment on the difference between Balto and
Southern Germanic.....However your using the term Ukrainian Scythians
is incorrect. Scythians settled in more places than the Ukraine -
Southern Russia and Central Asia among them. Properly one should say,
from the territories of modern day Ukraine or Poland or found within
such. Trying to connect either the Scythian or Lusatian cultures to
modern ethnic groups is limiting, unfounded and unfortunately ties into
nationalistic sentiments. One has to look at the current Ukrainian
claims of the Trypillian culture being the fount of present day Ukraine
(ians).</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br>----------<br><br>From: <span id="_user_bryans@lodging1.com" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">"Bryan E. Schulz" <<a href="mailto:bryans@lodging1.com">
bryans@lodging1.com</a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.03.25 (08) [E]<br><br><div><font face="Georgia" size="2">The Baltic region was occupied/ruled by Germany
for several centuries The main reason for the keen interest in the Baltic
countries from the northern European countries was the expansion of
the trading routes and the establishment of the Hanseatic League.</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia" size="2"> Another source of the influence on the
German language from Russia and its surrounds may be the effects
of the Viking forays deep into the territories now claimed by Russia.
The naval references you present could have easily been assimilated into
the languages as the Vikings went back-and-forth from Russia, France and most of
the Middle East countries. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Georgia" size="2">What is more intriguing to me is the place of the
Finnish language which seems rather isolated from its immediate neighbors. Some
think there is Sanskrit connection to this language.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Georgia" size="2">Bryan E. Schulz<br><br>----------<br><br></font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_bryans@lodging1.com" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: History</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hi, guys!</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Larry:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">> Ron would be more able to comment on the difference between Balto and
Southern Germanic.....</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">I defer to others. In fact I don't even know what "Balto-Germanic" is supposed to mean. Is it Germanic languages that are spoken along the Baltic coast? In that case it would include (in a traditional sense) Low Saxon ("Low German"), Anglic, Jutish, Danish, Scanian, Gutnish and Swedish, and, yes, also Gothic, perhaps also Darlecarlian, but it would exclude Norwegian and Jamtlandish (and of course Faeroese and Icelandic). Is it the Germanic languages spoken in the "Baltic Countries"? That would be Low Saxon and, added later, German. So I'm a bit lost here.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Trying to connect either the Scythian or Lusatian cultures to
modern ethnic groups is limiting, unfounded and <br>> unfortunately ties into
nationalistic sentiments</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Too true, as I would say wearing my Australian hat. One has to be extremely careful with that sort of thing. Too often have we seen "historical fantasies" being used for nationalistic propaganda purposes, especially when "purity" comes into it, or emphasis on one supposedly prestigious admixture and the notion of "national/ethnic characteristics/mentality." Just think of the exploitation of the name "Aryan" and persistent echoes of that past in the unfortunate German and Dutch terms
<span style="font-style: italic;"> <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Indogermanisch</span></span></span> and <span style="font-style: italic;">indogermaans</span> for "Indo-European"!
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Of course it's very interesting to research what sort of ethnic groups once passed through a certain area, which ones got absorbed where, and all the linguistic and cultural ramifications this may have. All this assumes that you accept that all ethnic groups, cultures and languages are mixtures, that there is no such thing as purity. You may remember that I once mentioned that at one point an alliance of Goths and Alans hung around parts of what are now northeastern Germany and northern Poland, areas in which some of my ancestors lived. While it is not impossible that I got some of that gene material I merely joke when I say I must have gotten some Persian blood from the Alans (the ancestors of today's Osetians) and that my once black unibrow proves it. (I should also claim Arab blood considering that there are early Arabic descriptions of the peoples of the Baltic coast and Arabic coins have been unearthed there.) Obviously this is supposed to poke fun at notions of ancestry research that's gone off the deep end.
<br><br>Bryan:<br><br><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" face="Georgia" size="2">> What is more intriguing to me is the place of the
Finnish language which seems rather isolated <br>> from its immediate neighbors. Some
think there is Sanskrit connection to this language.</font><br><br>Now there's where "Balto-" is used, namely "Balto-Finnic" or "Baltic Finnic," the name of the Finnic (thus Uralic) languages that are used at or near the Baltic Sea, and this includes not only Finnish but also Karelian, Estonian, Livian, Ingrian, Ludic, Veps, Votic and Võro (and other varieties of Southern Estonia). While I personally do not dismiss the possibility of very ancient links between the Uralic, Altaic and Indo-European languages, to say that there are Sanskrit connections with Finnish or Finnic is in my opinion a glaring example of a bright red herring that jumped out of a vat with an underpickled batch. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language, the oldest known Indo-Aryan variety to which Hindustani, Nepali, Panjabi, Gujarati, Marathi, Bengali and others belong. So Sanskrit is a heck of a lot more closely related to English, Norwegian, German, Russian, French, Gaelic etc. than it is related to Finnish and other Uralic languages. Or were there supposed to have been contacts between Finnic and Sanskrit at one point in time. How so? Who comes up with that stuff, and how ... and why?
<br><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Have a good week!<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br>