<font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"> <br>L O W L A N D S - L - 29 March 2007 - Volume 03<br><br>=========================================================================<br><br>From: <span id="_user_mrdreyer@lantic.net" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">
Mark Dreyer <<a href="mailto:mrdreyer@lantic.net">mrdreyer@lantic.net</a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.29 (03) [E]<br><br></font><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Subject: L-Lowlands
Etymology<br><br>By the way, "mire," too, means 'swampy
ground' or 'bog'. It is an early Scandinavian loan; cf. Old Norse <i>mýrr</i> (Icelandic <i>mýri</i>), Norwegian <i>myr</i>, Old Swedish <i>myr</i> (Swedish <i>myr</i>), Danish <i>myr</i>. It is related to archaic "mese" once
used in southwestern England, related to Old German <span style="font-style: italic;">mios</span> and Middle Dutch <span style="font-style: italic;">mies </span>, also <span style="font-style: italic;">Mies</span> 'moss' in some "German" (Low Saxon?)
dialects, as in <span style="font-style: italic;">Miesmuschel</span> '(blue) mussel'.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">May I presume to differ with
you? The "mire" of 'quagmire has a cognate in English, of 'mere': A pool or
lake, [OE 'mere', sea, lake, pool; German, Dutch, Afrikaans & English
(obsolete) 'meer', Latin 'mere'. A 'quagmire' is surely a lake of
ooze!</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Mike</font></div>
<font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com
</a>><br>Subject: Slavonic connections<br><br>Mark:<br><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">May I presume to differ with
you? </span><br><br>What if I say no? Then you'd be up a creek, would you? ;-) But, hey! Why not? Be my guest ... and that of a whole bunch of dictionaries!<br><br>The <span style="font-style: italic;">Oxford English Dictionary
</span>:<span style="font-style: italic;"><br><br></span><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">m</span><span style="font-weight: bold;">ere, n.</span><br></span></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";"><font size="2">[Cognate
with Old Frisian <i>mere</i> sea (West Frisian <i>mar</i> lake), Middle Dutch <i>mêre</i>,
<i>meer</i> sea, lake (Dutch <i>meer</i> lake), Old Saxon <i>meri</i> sea, lake
(Middle Low German <i>mêr</i>, <i>meer</i>, (rare) <i>mâre</i>,
German regional (Low German) <i>Meer</i>), Old High German <i>meri</i>, <i>mer</i>
sea, lake (Middle High German <i>mer</i> sea, German <i>Meer</i>), Old
Icelandic <i>marr</i> sea (Icelandic <i>mar</i>), Faeroese <i>marrur</i> marsh,
fen, Norwegian <i>mar-</i> sea (in compounds), Old Swedish <i>mar</i> sea
(Swedish <i>mar-</i> (in compounds), Swedish regional <i>mar</i> shallow water,
marshy inlet or lake, fen), Danish <i>mar-</i> sea (in compounds; Old Swedish <i>mär</i>,
Old Danish <i>mær</i> sea, are borrowings from Middle Low German), Gothic <i>mari-</i>
(in the compound <i>marisaiws</i> lake), <i>marei</i> sea < a Germanic base
cognate with classical Latin <i>mare</i> sea (</font><font size="1">> French <i>mer</i>,
Occitan <i>mar</i>, Catalan <i>mar</i>, Spanish <i>mar</i>, Portuguese <i>mar</i>,
Italian <i>mare</i>, Romanian <i>mare</i>), Old Irish <i>muir</i>, (Irish <i>muir</i>),
Old Welsh <i>mor</i>, (Welsh <i>môr</i>), Breton <i>mor</i> (cf. also Gaulish <i>Aremorici</i>,
lit. 'dwellers by the sea'; see </font><font size="1"><a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=mere&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=sldl-qqXTW0-19094&result_place=1&xrefword=Armorica&ps=n." target="_top">
ARMORICA</a></font><font size="2">
<i>n.</i>), Old Church Slavonic <i>morje</i> sea, Russian <i>more</i> sea, Old
Prussian <i>mary</i>, Lithuanian <i>marė</i>, and Latvian <i>mare</i>,
all in sense 'lagoon, bay'. The above-mentioned Germanic cognates chiefly
represent a Germanic <i>i</i>-stem, and are variously masculine and neuter; the
existence of a Germanic <i>īn</i>-stem from the same base is shown
by Gothic <i>marei</i>, feminine (the occasional appearance of the feminine
gender in some West Germanic forms, esp. in Old Saxon, is prob. a reflection of
this). Other Germanic words ultimately from the same base are (with ablaut
variation) prob. <a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=mere&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=sldl-qqXTW0-19094&result_place=1&xrefword=moor&ps=n.&homonym_no=1" target="_top">
MOOR</a> <i>n.</i>
and (with suffixation) <a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=mere&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=sldl-qqXTW0-19094&result_place=1&xrefword=marsh&ps=n.&homonym_no=1" target="_top">
MARSH</a>
<i>n.</i> and prob. <a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=mere&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=sldl-qqXTW0-19094&result_place=1&xrefword=march&ps=n.&homonym_no=1" target="_top">
MARCH</a>
<i>n</i>; the original sense of the Germanic base was prob. 'body of standing
water, wetland'<br></font><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial Unicode MS";"> <font size="1">Old
Frisian <i>mār</i> ditch (West Frisian <i>mear</i> drainage pool),
Middle Dutch <i>mêre</i>, <i>maer</i> pool, pond, drainage channel
(Dutch regional <i>maar</i>, freq. as an element in place names), Middle Low
German (East Friesland) <i>mār</i>, <i>māre</i>
drainage channel, German regional (Cologne) <i>Maar</i><a href="http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=mere&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=sldl-qqXTW0-19094&result_place=1&xrefword=maar&ps=n." target="_top">
MAAR</a><i>n.</i>),
may perh. represent a parallel formation from the same base, or prob. more
likely, a borrowing from Gallo-Romance: cf. Old French (chiefly northern) <i>mare</i>
pond, pool, swamp (12th cent.), post-classical Latin <i>mara</i> pond, pool
(from 11th cent., chiefly in British and northern French sources); <i>mar-</i>
forms in Middle English have perh. been influenced by these words (although
they might also derive from sporadic forms with unlengthened root vowel and
subsequent lowering of <i>e</i> to <i>a</i> before <i>r</i>: cf. E. J. Dobson <i>Eng.</i><i>
Pronunc. 1500-1700</i> (ed. 2, 1968) II. §§67-8). The Gallo-Romance etymon of
these words itself prob. represents a Germanic loanword ult. from the same base
as <i>mere</i>.<br>
In quot. <i>a</i>1530 at sense 1 <i>mere</i> is perh. < Middle
French <i>mer</i> sea (< classical Latin <i>mare</i>), although the
collocation <i>mer Mediterrane</i> is not attested in French before 1512.<br>
Recorded in <i>Eng.</i><i>
Dial. Dict.</i> s.v. in sense 2 from a number of northern, north midland, and
eastern English counties as well as Scotland; and in sense 4 from Yorkshire and
Suffolk (cf. also quot. 1995 from Lincolnshire).] crater-lake (see</font> </span></font></p>
<font size="2">***<br><font size="2"><br><font size="2">Yes, there appears to be an ancient connection, but probably a pre-Germanic one, and Northern Germanic still has a distinction between <span style="font-style: italic;">
mar</span> and </font></font></font><font size="2"><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">mýrr</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span></font><font size="2"><font size="2">, corresponding to English <span style="font-style: italic;">
mere </span>and <span style="font-style: italic;">mire</span> respectively.<br><br>Cheerio! Say hi to Ruth!<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></font><br><br></font>