<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 03 May 2007 - Volume 02</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">
wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.05.02 (02) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: Language maintenance</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Thanks, Diederik.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Yes, I think it was Pat that posted the text a few days ago. But I still found it interesting to look at the actual article.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">To those that don't read German please let me briefly explain that this article in
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Spiegel</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
(an important, more "serious" magazine published in Germany) explains
the states and situations of Germany's minority languages and predicts
that these will vanish within a generation or so if they are not
maintained and passed on. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">To
most of us, this isn't stunning news. However, it's good to see it
featured in the mainstream press, considering that the majority of
German speakers don't know (much) about it nor care about it but need
to realize that these are important issues for some people. I suppose
that the reaction of many will be something like "Good riddance,"
considering that those that have been around for a while have been
taught that ethnic and linguistic diversity is a problem for a country
rather than an asset. But, as in most places, the wind has been
changing direction. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">I
maintain that the main obstacle lies in the "main players'" failure to
be open to new approaches in order to foster alternative publications
and performances and thus to attract more and younger people to the
minority language communities. The communities themselves are in great
part to blame in that they tend to be non-supportive of unconventional
approaches and tend to be unwelcoming and discouraging toward younger
people that are enthusiastic but are not first-language speakers. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">I
consider the Sorbian community to be ahead as far as approach is
concerned, though its speaker numbers are dwindling also and there are
problems recruiting younger actors, for instance. At least there are
some admirable novel publishing and performing efforts. I am impressed
by the level of some published Sorbian writing, especially poetry, and
there have been some stunning theater and recital performances as well
as much support for modern art among ethnic Sorbs (not necessarily all
native speakers of Sorbian). My assessment of this is that the main
reason for this relatively high level of vitality and openness is that
Sorbs, though German citizens, definitely consider themselves
ethnically separate and independent from ethnic Germans and related but
also independent from neighboring West Slavonic communities (Silesians,
Poles, Kashubians, Lachs, Czechs and Slovaks). I assume that
progressively high levels of artistic expression among Poles, Czechs
and Slovaks have been inspiring them to venture beyond traditional
approaches. Also, I am under the impression that most Sorbs have
simply accepted the fact that their languages are strongly
German-influenced, and they are moving on from there instead of moaning
and groaning about declining standards while the languages fade into
oblivion in the meantime. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="3">I wonder if "vanish" isn't pushing the definition a bit; To quote from the article:</font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="3"> ""Gouden
Dai. Wo gungt et die?" Nur noch 2500 Menschen auf der Erde können sich
so auf Saterfriesisch nach dem Wohlbefinden anderer erkundigen..."</font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="3">Well,
that specific form might be on the way out, but as an English speaker
with reasonable German, rusty Afrikaans and some knowledge of Dutch and
Danish, it's pretty obvious what that means, and things very like that
are said daily across a huge tract of Northern Europe. There are
bigger differences within what is broadly called "English".</font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="3">Languages
and dialects die, so do people. Like people, some leave no
descendants, but the Low German group can hardly be classed in that
group!</font></p><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="sg">
<p><font size="3">Paul Finlow-Bates</font></p></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span id="_user_altkehdinger@freenet.de" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jonny Meibohm <<a href="mailto:altkehdinger@freenet.de">altkehdinger@freenet.de</a>></span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language maintenances" 2007.05.02 (06) [D/E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br><div>
<span><font face="Courier">Beste Diederik and
Ron,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier"><u>Diederik
schreyv:</u></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#008080" size="3">> That's a very interesting thought. Here one of the reasons for not
using dialect among younger people is among others the feeling
</font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#008080" size="3">> that we can't speak it correctly anymore. Even most of my friends
that think the dialect should be spoken again, are pessimistic
</font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#008080" size="3">> because eventhough their parents speak it to them, they are not used
to speaking it and feel that their Antw. is not like 'it should be'. > That
their 'Dutch' is not like it should be either is of course no point to anyone,
as noone is capable of speaking Dutch. But you'll </font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#008080" size="3">> often get a remark when they hear you try to speak dialect, but
hear that some sounds are wrong, or with Dutch substrate words.
</font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><font color="#008080" size="3">> (and as said will noone say anything when they hear dialect
substrate in your Dutch). <br>> I think we should just accept that we can't
speak like our grandparents anymore but that's a big step.</font>
</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">It's about the same
situation over here, in my LS-area. And one reason for this
development is: these young speakers are irritated by the discrepancy
between their home-dialect they (less and less!) hear from their next
sorrounders and some written stuff or badly spoken 'Patent-Platt'. They don't
aspect it any longer as their <em>own</em> language as we did in our youth, with
enough distance to those influences.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">And even one more thing I
must add: young pupils in Germany nowadays start to learn English in the age of
7 or 8 at school, and besides Standard German it is another language close to
LS. It's difficult in special situations to pronounce e.g. the word LS
<em>'all'</em> or <em>'al'</em> in the correct LS-way or, in the next
moment, in the demanded English way.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">The same happens to me if
I shall read out any LS text close to but not <strong>exactly</strong>
written in my home dialect- it's nearly impossible to do it fluently. My 'inner
ear' always tries to correct the letters my eyes see. (Things are different
if I read well written EFLS; then the differences get accepted because I
hear a variety I've really learned in its home area for more than one
year!)</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier"><u>Ron
schreyv:</u></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> <br></div><span><font color="#008080" face="Arial">>
While there <font color="#000000"> </font><font color="#008080">w</font>ere still archaic dialects in the
<strong>countryside</strong>, the varieties of English used in the cities had
become very much influenced by </font></span>
<div><span><font face="Arial"><font color="#008080"><span><font face="Arial">> French, </font></span> and
the grammar was a far cry from that of Old English. In turn those more
powerful French-influenced English dialects influenced > the country
dialects.</font></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier New">[and in
LL-L"Orthography" 2007.04.13(08):</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Arial"><span><font color="#008080" face="Arial">> Dat Kœnen hangt
schients vun de Landluft (d.h. Mist- un Addelröök) af;<font color="#000000">]</font></font></span></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">Obviously those people
weren't afraid of the smell of dung and sullage ;-)!?</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"><font color="#008080"><span>>
</span>In the long run it is the community of <strong>speakers</strong> that
will decide the direction of development,</font></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier"><span>I fully agree
with you, Ron! But less and less people will <strong>speak </strong>LS, for
instance! Have a little look back in this threat. Karl-Heinz Lorenz, Marcus Buck
etc. some days ago wrote that they're afraid that <strong>every</strong>
(German) dialect will vanish in future, caused by modern influences as there are
TV, radio, foreign music-textes etc. and, last but not least, by the great
mobility people today must have for professional
reasons.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier"><span></span></font> </div>
<div align="left"><font color="#008080" face="Arial"><span>> * P.S.: Bryan, I don't necessarily mean
"preserving for all times."</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier"><span></span></font> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier"><span>Indeed: we all
just can try to 'can' our old languages and dialects for later generations
of interested linguists.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier"><span>The more I
deal with all those international experiences and arguments the less I believe
in any rebirth...</span></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Courier">Allerbest!</font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<font face="Courier">Jonny
Meibohm<br><br></font>