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<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 07 May 2007 - Volume 02</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Henno Brandsma <<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">
hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.05.08 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q"><div><blockquote type="cite"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">
Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk </a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06
(02) [E/German]</font><font size="2"><br><br> Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate? Yes, apparently only Old East Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: <span style="font-style: italic;">borg</span> . An early Old Saxon loan (considering geographic proximity)? Old Saxon has
<span style="font-style: italic;">burg</span> (> Middle Saxon <span style="font-style: italic;">burg</span>, <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"> burch</span></span>, <span style="font-style: italic;">
borg</span> , <span style="font-style: italic;"> borch</span> > Modern <span style="font-style: italic;">Borg</span> ). Furthermore, Gothic, whose origin is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has <span style="font-style: italic;">
baurgs</span> .<br><br> Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br> </font> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">Regarding Norse place names in Normandy, I can only find two so far:</font>
</div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2"> </font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">- Briquebec, which would possibly equate an English *Brickbeck*, or more likely *Birkbeck* (that one actually exists).;
</font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">-
Hambye, which without the "e" on the end, wouldn't look out of place in
Lincolnshire or Leicestershire. *Hamby* would actually be an Old
English/Norse hybrid, since "ham" and "by" both effectively mean the
same thing - the place appears to be called "village-village"!</font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2"> </font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2">The
presence of a Saxon root in Normandy, if that's what it is, is
interesting. The Norse equivalent of "ham" would be "heimr", so I
wouldn't expect a modern "ham" form to arise from that. The Saxons did
settle in the Loire Valley, so there is a possible connection there.</font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2"> </font></div> <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2">Paul Finlow-Bates<br></font></div>
</blockquote><br></div></span><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As an (interestin?) aside: there is (from1986 onwards) a West Frisian rockband</div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">called "briquebec" (named after the place in Normandy),which I believe is a pun
</span><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">on the West Frisian "brike bek" : crooked mouth (or some more vulgar term: gab or something).</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">These sound identical....
</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Henno</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">sjoch <a href="http://www.bricquebec.nl/index1.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.bricquebec.nl/index1.html</a> foar mear ynfo....</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br>----------<br><br>From: <span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Paul Finlow-Bates <
<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]<br>
<br><div style="font-size: 10pt;">A few more possibles:</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">- Mobecq has the "-bekr" element</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">and two places just south of Cherbourg with names that look very Scandinavian, though I don't know if the are:</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">Hardinvast and Tollevast.</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">There's also a place on the Cherbourg peninsula called Dannery - Place of Danes possibly? just guessing.</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">Also many places with the element Hameau, e.g Hameau sur la Mer. Possible saxon "ham" relics?</div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 10pt;">Paul Finlow-Bates<br><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: Paul Finlow-Bates <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">To: </span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM</a><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Sent: Tuesday, 8 May, 2007 8:25:58 AM</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: Re: LL-L "Etymology"
2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate? Yes, apparently only Old East Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: </span>
<span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">borg</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">. An early Old Saxon loan (considering geographic proximity)? Old Saxon has </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
burg</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> (> Middle Saxon </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">burg</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">, </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="font-style: italic;">burch</span></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">, </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">borg</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> , </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
borch</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> > Modern </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Borg</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">). Furthermore, Gothic, whose origin is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has
</span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">baurgs</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> .</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Regards,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Reinhard/Ron</span><br><br><div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">
Regarding Norse place names in Normandy, I can only find two so far:</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">- Briquebec, which would possibly equate an English *Brickbeck*, or more likely *Birkbeck* (that one actually exists).;
</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">-
Hambye, which without the "e" on the end, wouldn't look out of place in
Lincolnshire or Leicestershire. *Hamby* would actually be an Old
English/Norse hybrid, since "ham" and "by" both effectively mean the
same thing - the place appears to be called "village-village"!</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font size="2">The
presence of a Saxon root in Normandy, if that's what it is, is
interesting. The Norse equivalent of "ham" would be "heimr", so I
wouldn't expect a modern "ham" form to arise from that. The Saxons did
settle in the Loire Valley, so there is a possible connection there.</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"><font size="2">Paul Finlow-Bates</font></div><span class="ad"><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
<br>Subject: History<br><br>Paul,<br><br>Today I wrote:<br></span><pre style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-family: arial,sans-serif;" id="nonprop">3. Old Northern French *ham (cf. Picard ham, hem) > dim. hamel > hameau 'village', probably derived from Germanic (see 1)
</pre>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron</div><span class="q"><br></span><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
•
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