<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 13 May 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">==============================</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">==============================</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=============</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Pat Reynolds
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> <<a href="mailto:pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk</a>>
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2007.05.12 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">In message<br><<a href="mailto:57c981290705121436i2908ea24g2b40c75f08d49eee@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
57c981290705121436i2908ea24g2b40c75f08d49eee@mail.gmail.com
</a>>,<br>Lowlands-L List <<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>> i.e Reinhrd/Ron writes<br></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span>><br>>Pat, the other day you mentioned a project idea in an email message to<br>>me. I thought then that was a really great one, but to my shame I've<br>>forgotten what it was<br><br></span>
</div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Oh, I had sent you a photograph I took on one of my favourite journeys:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">by train from Norwich to Berney Arms (Norfolk, UK), and the idea came up
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">that the website might include a 'journeys' section.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Cheers,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Pat</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">(I'm very phenomenological, me).</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">-----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Pat Reynolds</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<<a href="mailto:pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2007.05.12 (03) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Dear Marcel and Ron/Reinhard,<br><br>New York (State) is indeed a great place to meet (well, I don't like New<br>
York City that much, but I'm not a "city" person). One of the great
<br>railway journeys of the World is from New York City to Albany. And it<br>is the home of some great museums, including the New Paltz historic<br>houses, and some great projects, including the New Netherlands Project<br>
....<br><br>I don't think that there will be - or should be - a 'one size fits all'<br>way of meeting up: large or small meetings, in formal groupings (e.g.<br>reading papers in a seminar) or informal groupings (visiting a
<br>coffee-house for half hour or so after work), regular meetings or<br>one-offs occassioned by a visit or an externally organized event ....<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Pat<br></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
--<br>Pat Reynolds<br><br>
It may look messy now ...<br> ... but just you come back in 500 years time (T. Pratchett).</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: Anniversary
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hi, "guys"!</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
As far as I am concerned, this discussion is merely at the very early stage of brainstorming, possibly at the pie-in-the-sky stage. Nevertheless, I think it's worth our while to bounce around a few ideas and to see if we can hit pay dirt and if there's any perceived desire and feasibility to mine the minerals.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">The very basic questions each one needs to answer for his- or herself seem to be:</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><ul style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><li>How important is the group to me?<br></li><li>How important are these contacts to me, and do I want to maintain them?</li>
<li>Do I care enough at least about some of these "disembodied entities" that I am ready to meet them and forthwith see them as real flesh-and-blood persons?</li><li>What else would an in-person convention achieve that long-distance interactions cannot achieve?
</li></ul><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As for venues, Marcel's reasoning seems good to me. It would not have to be (all) in New York City but could be in a less urban and less expensive environment nearby, perhaps in the Catskill Mountains or so. By the way, there are Midwestern places with Dutch and Low Saxon heritage, such as
Core Camp, Missouri, with its tradition of US-North German Low Saxon activities and meetings. But this would not lend itself to brief conferences, for instance over a long weekend, since it would involve too much traveling.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As far as travel and accommodation costs are concerned, Marcel's plan would be good for most people on and near the Atlantic Coast (while Europe is far too expensive for most people). At a disadvantage would be people in Asia, Australia and New Zealand. From their perspectives, the North American Pacific Coast would be middle ground. Furthermore, in this area the United States would be least feasible for two reasons: (1) They are the most expensive of the three countries, and (2) I know that many Muslims (of which we have a good number as members) currently (and possibly in the future) avoid visiting due to various reasons, most importantly because of fears regarding entry procedures (and let's not go into whether or not such fears are justified, since their existence is really all that matters). In this case, then, the areas of, say, Vancouver (Canada), (British-twist) Victoria (Canada), (Highlands) Banff (Canada), Guadalajara (Mexico) or Mexico City seem more appropriate and all happen to be wonderful and interesting places that are popular tourist destinations and thus have good transportation and also group rate possibilities as far as transportation and accommodation are concerned.
<br><br>Further about the travel section idea ... This could be an on-line album full of snippets of travel tips. It does not have to be about whole countries, areas or towns but can as well be about specific places within places, such as museums and such. For instance, in the Great Hamburg area I can think of the Altona Museum (
<a href="http://www.altonaermuseum.de">www.altonaermuseum.de</a>), the Hamburg Museum for Art and Trade (<a href="http://www.mkg-hamburg.de/">www.mkg-hamburg.de/</a>), the Historical Museum of Hamburg (<a href="http://www.hamburgmuseum.de/">
www.hamburgmuseum.de/</a>), the tiny but worthwhile Wilhemsburg Museum, and the open-air museum at Kiekeberg (<a href="http://www.kiekeberg-museum.de/">www.kiekeberg-museum.de/</a>). All of these have displays of everyday life in old-time, Low-Saxon-speaking cultures. Furthermore, I would recommend a day tour each through the "Old Land" (
<span style="font-style: italic;">Dat Ole Land</span>, <span style="font-style: italic;">Olland</span>, <span style="font-style: italic;">Das Alte Land</span>) and through Veerlannen (<span style="font-style: italic;">Vierlande
</span>), also a day tour each to Hanseatic Lübeck (</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="http://tinyurl.com/8fq3z">tinyurl.com/8fq3z</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">) and Lunenburg (<span style="font-style: italic;">
Lüünborg</span>, <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Lüneburg</span></span>, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/lgql2">tinyurl.com/lgql2</a>) and Mölln (</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="http://tinyurl.com/2fflat">
tinyurl.com/2fflat</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">), perhaps a day tour across the Heath with stops in a couple of particularly well-preserved villages.<br><br>Again, I would favor not relying solely on LL-L members' contributions but to invite the general public as well (and people love promoting their towns and favorite travel destinations). People ought to be given the coice of contributing anonymously. And again, I emphasize that this not be limited to Europe. For instance, for Western Australia I would recommend, with mention of historic sites, Fremantle (the state's first European settlement,
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/234w6d">tinyurl.com/234w6d</a>), Kalgoorlie (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2hdfkp">tinyurl.com/2hdfkp</a>) and Coolgardie (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2a3osp">tinyurl.com/2a3osp</a>), and for Jakarta, Indonesia, I would for instance point out the historic colonial Batavia port settlement (locally simply known as "Kota,"
i.e. "City" <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ytyl26">tinyurl.com/ytyl26</a>). Heather could give us a few tips about her stomping grounds with tips about historical aspects, as could Gabriele about her Eastphalian region, Roland about Ostend, Utz about Bremen, etc., etc.
<br><br>By the way, such a project is likely to please many a local chamber of commerce, and we might get some cooperation from them.<br><br>If we do go ahead with this, there is the question of what we should call it. My first (perhaps somewhat "lame") ideas:
<br></span><ul style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><li>Lowlands Guide</li><li>Lowlands Tour Guide</li><li>Lowlands Travel Guide<br></li><li>Lowlands Travel Companion</li><li>Lowlands Companion</li><li>Lowlands Traveller (~ Traveler)
<br></li><li>Lowlands Sojourner</li></ul><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Or, perhaps most "sexy" and </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">à propos</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><ul style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><li>(The) Lowlands Trekker</li></ul><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">So, this is my pick (from my own array) so far:
<br><br></span><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">The </span>Lowlands Trekker</span><br></div><div style="text-align: center; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
A Lowlands-L Travel Companion<br><div style="text-align: left;">Any other ideas?<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br>
<br>
By the way, folks, I consider our Pat a shining example of what I like
to see happening. While she has been an ardent participant most of the time in the past, it
is now, after she took the plunge by contributing something to the
Gallery (<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/gallery/">lowlands-l.net/gallery/</a>),
that she seems less restrained and more enthusiastic and is thus in
effect more supportive. More of her potential seems to have been
unleashed upon us -- and that's a beautiful thing. Yes, I do
appreciate reasons for reservations out there, but I do hope that these do
not include lack of confidence and the assumption that you are not
"special" and have nothing "special" to contribute. Let me state
without any hesitation that <span style="font-style: italic;">all</span> of you are special and have special things to offer, at the very least interesting questions. And, no, you do <span style="font-style: italic;">not
</span>
need to be "learned" and "specialists," are not likely to "make fools
of yourselves." I and the rest of the team would help you feel and
be safe, and we'd be happy to help you in the areas of language and editing as well.</span><br><br>Thanks, folks!<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></div></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Anniversary"
2007.05.12 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<p><font size="2">From: Pat Reynolds<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <<a href="mailto:pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pat@caerlas.demon.co.uk
</a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2007.05.11 (01) [E] <br></font></p><p><font size="2">On the idea of doing 'something more' than conversing on an email list,<br></font></p><div style="direction: ltr;">
<font size="2">or contributing to a website: I wonder how you / you all would feel <br>about irregularly and occassionally meeting? Perhaps at occassions<br>where it is probable that several members will be present anyway?
<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Pat<br></font></div><font size="2">--<br>Pat Reynolds<br><br>It may look messy now ...<br> ... but just you come back in 500 years time (T. Pratchett).<br><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn
<span style="font-weight: normal;"> <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>Subject: Anniversary<br>
<br>Thanks a lot, Pat.<br><br>The
idea has occurred to me, and years ago I proposed it, though there was
no reaction to it then. Perhaps things have changed -- namely possible
reservations and boundary considerations. <br><br>At the very least, I could imagine two more immediate possibilities:<br></font>
<ol><li><font size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Specialized groups</span>: groups of Lowlanders sharing special interests<br></font></li><li><font size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Regional groups</span> : groups of
Lowlanders within a certain geographic region, possibly within fairly
easy travel distance from each other, that may choose to hold
occasional in-person meetings</font></li></ol><font size="2">In
either case, one might suggest that these groups elect a representative
each and share condensed versions of their common discoveries with the
List, possibly also contribute on-line summary presentations.<br><br>Specialized
topics (other than specific language varieties) off the top of my head
on the basis of was has been transpiring so far: <br></font>
<ul><li><font size="2">Etymology (word history) and onomastics (name history)<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Phonology</font></li><li><font size="2">Orthography<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Language planning and policies
</font></li><li><font size="2">Language construction<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Language contacts</font></li><li><font size="2">Culture contacts<br></font></li><li><font size="2">History</font></li><li><font size="2">
Folklore</font></li><li><font size="2">Music<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Literature<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Architecture</font></li><li><font size="2">Food and drink<br></font></li><li><font size="2">Promotion of lesser-known languages and cultures
<br></font></li></ul><font size="2">And then there is the possibility of teams working on projects with a view at publication.<br><br>Also,
we do already have the technology, though not yet uniform access to it
-- and I'm thinking here about real-time online conferencing. I could
see us do that sometime in the future, although there may be issues of
language proficiency and time zones. <br><br>Pat,
the other day you mentioned a project idea in an email message to me.
I thought then that was a really great one, but to my shame I've
forgotten what it was. Do you remember? <br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br>•</font> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">I'd
love to catch up wit some of you folks, but we're often on different
continents. I'm in Australia in late May to mid June, maybe I can
catch with somebody down there?</div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;">Paul Finlow-Bates</div><span class="ad"><br></span><br><br><br><br>