<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 19 May 2007 - Volume 04</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span id="_user_ezinsser@icon.co.za" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Elsie Zinsser <<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.19 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi Jonny and
Ron,</span></font></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I'm taking
a flyer but suspect that Huuk and Eck (meaning corner Afrikaans: hoek) are </span></font></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">closely related
but that huuk (crouch, Afrikaans hurk) comes from a different root.</span></font></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Now to
find evidence. <span><br></span></span></font></span></p><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span id="_user_kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Kevin Caldwell <<a href="mailto:kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net">kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net
</a>></span><span id="_user_ezinsser@icon.co.za" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
2007.05.19 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span class="q">> From: Jonny Meibohm <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:altkehdinger@freenet.de">altkehdinger@freenet.de</a>><br>> Subject: LL-L "Grammar"
2007.05.18 (04) [E]<br>> Beste Ron,<br>><br>> in your table here: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/jysk-info.php" target="_blank">lowlands-l.net/anniversary/jysk-info.php
</a><br>><br>> you translate 'corner' in LS as 'Eck', 'Huuk' ('Huke' here).<br>><br>> This (your choice) is very interesting and I formerly had made some thoughts about it.<br>>
<br>> In our Lower-Elbe-dialect both words are in use, but I think the first choice to describe<br>> the corner of a street or anything else comparable within a landscape would be 'Hoyrn', 'Hörn'.<br>
> So I always would do though I guess the very early, basic meaning was something betokening a<br>> 'peak', as e.g. 'Cape Horn' shows.<br>><br>> It would be interesting to find out whether the Scandinavian 'hörn', 'horn', 'hjørn' came as an
<br>> LS loan into those languages or if they are pan-germanic.<br></span></p><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Isn't
this more a pan-IE thing? English has 'horn'(going back to OE) in
multiple senses, such as animal horns, a cape or promontory (the Horn
of Africa), as well as a musical instrument (originally made from
animal horns), while Latin 'cornu' gives us, through French, 'corner'
and derivatives such as 'unicorn', 'tricorn (hat)', 'cornet', and
'cornucopia' (horn of plenty).<br></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span class="sg"><br>Kevin Caldwell</span></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_altkehdinger@freenet.de" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Jonny Meibohm <<a href="mailto:altkehdinger@freenet.de">altkehdinger@freenet.de</a>></span><span id="_user_ezinsser@icon.co.za" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.19 (01) [E]</span><br>
<div><span><font face="Courier"><br>He,
Ron,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">going on with LS
'Huuk'/'Huke'/'Hoek'.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">This afternoon I had a
meeting with some of my native neighbours, and I told them about
our/</font></span><span><font face="Courier">this
thread.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">Very
interesting!</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">We came to the agreement
that 'Huuk'/'Huke' denotes the <u><strong>inner</strong></u> side of an 'edge',
of always an artificial/geometrical angle, e.g. of any kind of building (so
as in my formerly mentioned: 'dike').</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Courier">And- the word LS: 'Oken'
(which I'm sure you're familiar with) could be derived from it. 'Oken' means G:
'Abseite', 'hinterste Ecke', also 'Dachschräge'; E: (according
to </font></span><a href="http://www.dict.cc/?s=Abseite" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"><font face="Courier">http://www.dict.cc/?s=Abseite</font></a><font face="Courier"> <span>) 'nave aisle'. 'Kiek inns in
dennen achtersten <strong>Oken</strong> van 't Schapp. Door steiht noch 'n
Pakken Zolt.' E:'Just have a look into the aftmost edge of the cupboard. You'll
find a pack of salt there.'</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Courier"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Courier"><span>[Wow- 'aftmost'! Never
seen before. What a nice and archaic word I'll never forget again which I
got from <font color="#800080">dict.cc</font>!]</span></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left"><span><font face="Courier">Houl
Dii hattig!</font></span></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<font face="Courier">Jonny Meibohm<br><br></font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: Etymology<br><br>And watch them go feasting on another scrap of etymology!<br><br>Elsie:<br><br><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">> Now to
find evidence.</span></font></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hmmmm ... indeed. And here's a little beauty coming your way, "guys."
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Ek</span></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
(</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Eck </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">< OS </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">eggia</span>
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">, German </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ecke</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">) 'corner', though apparently not related to the "horn" ~ "corner" (< IE *
</span>̑<span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">ker(ə)-</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">,</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> "</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
horn") and "hook" (< IE *keg- "pointed stick") groups, in fact belongs to the Indo-European group of *</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">ak-</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
̑ ~ *</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">ok</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">̑-, which denotes "sharp" as in "sharp angle".</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">And there's the Low Saxon word </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Oken</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
(~ </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Öken</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">) Jonny and his Oldkehdinger Olen were talking about (and I have come across as </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Aken</span> as well)! Apparently, its earliest meaning is 'underside of a roof top', 'attic', namely where the two angles of a pointed roof meet. Its secondary meaning is 'far end of an inside space', such as the far inside wall of an armoir.
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">So, yes, Jonny. I tentatively go along with the notion that that </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Huuk</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> denotes the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">inside<span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
of a corner (as in "The teacher made me stand in the corner," as opposed to "The teacher was walking around the corner" as in "</span><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
outside</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> corner").</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
So I go as far as postulating that a </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">huke</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> was an inside corner and a </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
hoyrn</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> was an outside corner in Saxon, while </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">ek</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
can now denote either of them.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Kevin:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> It would be interesting to find out whether the Scandinavian 'hörn', 'horn', 'hjørn' came as an
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> LS loan into those languages or if they are pan-germanic.</span><br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">My hunch is that it's pan-Germanic.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br>