<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 23 May 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wintzermichel@wanadoo.fr" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">MWI</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg">
<<a href="mailto:wintzermichel@wanadoo.fr">wintzermichel@wanadoo.fr</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Names" 2007.05.23 (07) [E]
</span><br><br><div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">Heiko, I think (Ron to
confirm) that Uelzen and Uetersen have nothing to do with </font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">Umlaut. The "e" is an
archaic indication of vowel length, so the correct </font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">pronounciation (long lost
in the collective memory) is Uulzen and Uutersen (like</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">English "oo").</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">In place names less
frequently used by outsiders, this collective memory</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">is still intact. Near
Buchholz i.d.N. for example, there are 2 small villages,</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">Buensen and Vaensen, and
older people still pronouce them (which I think</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">is correct) as Buunsen,
Vaansen. Over to you, Ron.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">Cheers, Mike W</font><font color="#000080" face="Comic Sans MS" size="4">intzer</font></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 128); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Heiko
Evermann <<a href="mailto:heiko.evermann@gmx.de+" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">heiko.evermann@gmx.de </a>></span><br>Subject: LL-L German place names with
initial Umlaut<br><br>
<div style="direction: ltr;">For place names
with an initial Umlaut there seems to be a strange rule in<br>German.<br>It is
"Uelzen" (not "Ülzen")<br>or "Uetersen" (not "Ütersen") <br><br>This is also
done for Ö. I do not know any Examples with
Ä/Ae.</div></blockquote></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: Names</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hi, Heiko and Mike!</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Well, I'm not so sure, Mike. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">First of all let's establishe that the names mentioned aren't German but Low Saxon, though they are of Germany. (Sorry. I had to mention this.)
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Remember that written umlauts came in only during the Middle Saxon and Middle German phases of development, and then it tended to be written inconsistently. Furthermore, it was written not with two dots but with a small "e" on top of a vowel letter (and the two dots developed from that).
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">It could simply be that the small "e" on top of a capital letter looked extra weird, and people avoided it, write the "e"
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">behind</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> the letter instead.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Aside from that, note that the (West Slavonic) Polabian name for Uelzen is Wilcaus (pronounced "WILL-tsows") which developed from *Wilcus" (pronounced *WILL-tsoos" (Draveno-Polabian has the shifts /uu/ > /au/ and /ii/ > /ai/ like German). So this
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ue...</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> thing could be a medieval way of trying to write [wI] or [we] (as opposed to [vI] or [ve]).*
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">* While other West Salvonic languages pronounce
</span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">w</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> as [v], Sorbian (both languages) pronounces it as [w] (like English "w") which means that Sorbian does not phonetically distinguish written
</span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">w</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> and written </span><span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">ł</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
but pronounces both as [w] (while in Kashubian and Polish they are [v] and [w] respectively).</span><br></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">This does nothing for Uetersen, however, since this is believed to be a Saxon name (and the town is a bit west of the Slavonic boundary). It is believed to come from *Uterst-Stên "Outermost Stone" or something like that.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As for Oevelgönne (rather than *Övelgönne), that's another Saxon name. I think we've discussed it before, but I can't find it in the archives. It corresponds to some place names in the Netherlands, and it's meaning seems to be something like "foul-smelling, muddy slough". This
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">oevel</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> part is pronounced ['?œ:vl] (with a long vowel similar to "ur" in "hurt" as pronounced in Southern England), and it's a cognate of German
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">übel</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> and English "evil". If it were spelled *</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
övel</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> it should be pronounced ['?œIvl] (with a diphthong as in French </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">oeil</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
, as in English "boy" in the Lower Elbe dialects), which is wrong. (Not that this would be of any relevance to Wikiplatt, mind you, authoritative though it's supposed to be.)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">German place names </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">with</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
initial umlaut:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Öblarn (Austria)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Öhningen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Öhringen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ölbronn-Dürrn</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Öhling (Austria)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Öllingen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ölsen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ölsig</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Öpfingen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Östringen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ötigheim</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ötisheim</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ötzingen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Übach-Palenberg</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Überackern (Austria)</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Übereisenbach</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Überherrn</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Überlingen</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Übersaxen (Austria)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Übersbach (Austria)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Übersee</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Üchtelhausen
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ückeritz</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ülsby</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ürzig</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Üttfeld</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Üxheim</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span class="q"><br></span>