<br>L O W L A N D S - L - 04 June 2007 - Volume 05<br><br>=========================================================================<br><br><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Elsie Zinsser</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.06.04 (01) [D/E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi all,</span></font></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Ja, Marcel
en Mark, ons het ook gewoon die vet bruin "besie" (cockchafers) wat roos-, appel-
en peerblare vervreet, en die benaming kom wel van die Nederlandse 'beestje'
soos in 'diertje' (bug). </span></font></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Groete, </span></font></span></p><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="sg">
<p><span><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Elsie
Zinsser</span></font></span></p></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">
<p style="margin-left: 36pt;"><font color="black" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">But we
also see that many languages refer to cattle. Now I wonder if the Afrikaans use
of '-besie' in <em><i>sonbesie </i></em>is indeed a variety of the Dutch word <em><i>beestje
</i></em>, which means 'little animal, little insect/bug', or if Afrikaans
'-besie' refers to a cow (in Afrikaans <em><i>bees</i></em>). </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font><br></p>
<p style="margin-left: 36pt;"><font color="black" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">In
Dutch 'beestjes' is commonly used for any small insect or bug. </span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;" lang="DE">"Er zitten beestjes op mijn t-shirt", or
"Als ik te veel gedronken heb zie ik allemaal beestjes" (!).</span></font></p></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------<br><br>From: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Henno Brandsma <<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com
</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> Subject: Traditions</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Thanks,
Lee. I agree with all you said. Sometimes there appear to be different
source languages, such as in the case of the Hebrew word for "wren". </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As for ladybugs, there are definite themes going on throughout Europe:
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> <br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reference to non-Christian female deities:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> Old Norse: </span><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">freyjuhaena</i><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Reference to Mary:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Calabrese: </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">gaddrinèddra d'à Madònna
</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Castilian: </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
mariquita</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Catalan: </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">marieta<br></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Danish: </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> mariehøne</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Dutch: </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Lieveheersbeestje</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">This does not belong in the reference to Mary category, but in the references to God section.
</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"(onze) lieve heer" stands for God. It's a more catholic turn of phrase, protestants tend to say/write "de Heere".</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
(archaic form from the Staten-translation from the 17th century) <br></div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" type="cite"> English: <span style="font-style: italic;">ladybird, ladybug</span><br> German, Modern:
<span style="font-style: italic;">Marienkäfer<br></span>German, Middle: <i>Marienvoglein </i><span style="font-style: italic;"><br> </span>Icelandic: <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">maríuhæna
</span><br></span> Low Saxon: <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Mariek</span></span><br> Norwegian, Dano-: <span style="font-style: italic;">mariehøne</span><br> <br><span style="text-decoration: underline;">
Reference to God:</span><br> Breton: <span style="font-style: italic;">buoc'hig-Doue </span><br>Irish: <span style="font-style: italic;"> bóín Dé<br></span>Low Saxon: <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">
Herrgottskoh</span><br> </span>Nissart (Nice <font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="-1">Provençal): <span style="font-style: italic;">galineta dòu bouòn Diéu</span></font><br> Russian: <span style="font-style: italic;">
Божья коровка</span><br><span style="font-style: italic;"> <br></span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Reference to chickens:</span><span style="font-style: italic;"><br> </span>Danish: <span style="font-style: italic;">
mariehøne<br></span>Icelandic: <span style="font-style: italic;"> <span style="font-style: italic;">maríuhæna</span><span style="font-style: italic;"></span><br> </span>Nissart (Nice <font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="-1">
Provençal): <span style="font-style: italic;">galineta dòu bouòn Diéu</span></font><span style="font-style: italic;"> <br> </span>Norwegian, Dano-: <span style="font-style: italic;">mariehøne</span><br> Old Norse: <span style="font-style: italic;">
f</span><i>reyjuhaena<br></i>Low Saxon: <span style="font-style: italic;"> <span style="font-style: italic;"></span>Sünn(e(n))küken<br></span>Welsh: <span style="font-style: italic;">b<span style="font-style: italic;"> uwch goch gota
</span></span><br><br><span style="font-style: italic;"></span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> Reference to birds generally:</span><br> English: <span style="font-style: italic;">ladybird<br> </span>German, Middle:
<i>Marienvoglein</i><br><br> <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Reference to cattle:</span><br> Dutch: <span style="font-style: italic;">Lieveheersbeestje</span><br></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Not cattle. but just "little animal" literally, but often used for insects in general.</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">West Frisian is "ingeltsje" (little angel), which is also a religious reference.
</div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Henno Brandsma</div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Diederik Masure <<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Traditions"
2007.06.03 (06) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div>
<p>I'm a bit late in this duscussion, but would anyone know the/a
Antw./southwest brabant term for the ladybug? I can't remember any from
my childhood, but I'm sure it is not St. D. lieveheersbeestje. I hear
sometimes the word 'lievebeersgeestje' among some friends but that's
quite probably a (humouristic) new formation, no google hits and the
few people I know that use it are all friends... <br>gr<br>died<br><br>----------<br></p></div></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Diederik Masure <<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div>Thanks to Google I found back the word I was looking
for, 'hemelbeestje' (heaven's bug); the forum I found it at lists it as
'West Vlaams" so I am not sure it is the 'real' dialect word either,
but at least it's the one that was common in cultivated antwerp speech
some 10-15 years ago - I haven't heard it in use though, lately. </div></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br>----------<br><br>From: </span>
<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Diederik Masure <<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">didimasure@hotmail.com
</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]<br><br>
Sorry voor de grote spam aan opeenvolgende berichten, </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Kijk ook eens </span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieveheersbeestjes#Etymologie" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieveheersbeestjes#Etymologie</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> with a lot of other names (supposedly marienkaefer/ladybug etc are due to an older dedication to Freya [says wiki])
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ook opvallend bij Limburgs = mulderinnetje, aangezien mulder ea. frequente dialectwoorden voor de meikever zijn...
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Elsie Zinsser</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "History</span><br></span>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font color="black" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Haai almal,</span></font></span></p>
<p><span><font color="black" face="Batang" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Batang; color: black;">O, terloops,
Marcel, 'n 'bees' (ox) is die algemene benaming (beesras/beestipe/beesvleis),<br>terwyl koei
(cow) die vroulike dier is, en bul (bull) die manlike dier. </span></font></span></p>
<p><span><font color="black" face="Arial Unicode MS" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Batang; color: black;" lang="DE">Ek sien daar is beskrywings wat 'biltong' verkeerdelik
aandui as sou die 'bil' in biltong van</span><br><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;" lang="EN-US">'</span></font></span><span><font color="black" face="Batang" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Batang; color: black;" lang="DE">
bul' ontstaan, terwyl 'bil' in werklikheid
'lang dun reep' (vleis in dié geval) beteken.</span></font></span></p>
<p><span><font color="black" face="Batang" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Batang; color: black;" lang="DE">Elsie Zinsser</span></font></span></p>
<span><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">...[</span></font></span><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;">
or if
Afrikaans '-besie' refers to a cow (in Afrikaans <em><i>bees</i></em>).</span></font><font color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(153, 51, 102);">]</span></font>