<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 25 June 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_ezinsser@icon.co.za" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Maria Elsie Zinsser</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg">
<<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za">ezinsser@icon.co.za</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Hi all,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ron, in Afrikaans, the color
green also denotes jealousy; 'Hy was groen van jaloesie toe ek..." but
I think it comes from the English language (or Low Saxon?) rather than
being a cultural remnant from Dutch, German or French. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Yellow has no negative connotation in Afrikaans, unless Mark, Petrus or Marcel can tell us otherwise.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">My
gut tells me that the people who started using these secretive color
codes to communicate about characteristics such as snobbery and deluded
superiority, did so because gossiping about the newly rich and
newly learned was either frowned upon or even punished. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Elsie Zinsser</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_list@marcusbuck.org" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org
</a>"</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.23 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com
</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">> Subject: Etymology</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">> Good one, Mark!</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">> In Low Saxon it's kum (Kumm < Kumme, fem.) for 'basin', 'bowl', etc.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"Kumm < Kumme, fem."? Ik kinn Kump, mask. för Schötel oder en gröttern</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Beker. Un dat passt mit dat 'p' beter to coombe, oder? Warrt foken ok</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">afslepen to Kumm.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Marcus Buck</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
jonny</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]</span><br>
<br><div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Hi, Elsie,
Reuben and <strong>Reinhard</strong>,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">this thread
started with LS 'Geelsnacker' and meanwhile reached Eastern LS
'Jältään.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><u>Elsie:</u></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><span><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Batang;"><span></span><font color="#008080">> It has puzzled me too why, in Mennonite Plautdietsch, the
devil would be called "jäl Tän".</font></span></font></span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><u>Reuben:</u></font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><font face="Courier"><font color="#008080"><span>> </span>"Jältähn f. Gelbzahn:
Schreckgestalt; bogeyman, yellow tooth, ghoul in<br><span>> </span>folklore." May this be of some help toward
definition and etymology.</font></font> <br><br><span>I'm very familiar with this word, which often was used
by my grandparents from East Prussia. And it always denoted a bogeyman, as
Reuben shows. I've never heard about any connection to the
devil.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span><u>Ron:</u></span></font></div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span>LS
<em><strong>'Geelsnacker'</strong></em> isn't a man who talks 'Houghdüütsch'
(Standard German) in its first meaning at all. It's an everyday word here:
<em>'hey snackt geel'</em> and that definitely means that someone is
talking in a <em>boastful, immoderate</em> way- no matter if in LS or Standard
German. We wouldn't denote a man talking Standard German 'Geelsnacker', we
prefer '<em>hey is 'n Houghdüütschen'</em>. I guess 'Geelsnacker' in that
special meaning to be one of those words having become famous by
non-natives.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2"><em>(BTW: Sorry, Reinhard<font color="#ff0000">t</font>, for continuously
misspelling your name- I didn't realise it...)</em></font></span></div>
<div><span><em></em></span> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Allerbest!</font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Jonny
Meibohm<br><br><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From:
</span><span id="_user_jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">jonny</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">
jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]</span><br>
<br>
<div><div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">To
<em>'Jähltän'</em> once more:</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"> I
just remember a special story my uncle from East Prussia told about
him:</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Near their
farm there was an old water hole ('Mergelkuhle'), surrounded by meadows. In the
evening, after the work had been done, the horses had to be brought to this
meadow. In autumn times it often was already nearly dark. To bring the
horses to the meadows always was great pleasure for a boy like my uncle (and
like me, too, one generation later...)- he was allowed to sit and ride on one of
them.</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">The
accompanying young farmhands had another kind of pleasure: they used to tell the
little boy horrifying tales about that dreadful 'Jältään' who lived in that
water hole, and at last they sometimes even ran away, shouting: "De
Jältään kaomt, de Jältään kaomt!" and left him crying
alone.</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">That's the
story, but now some facts: in Standard German 'Gelbzahn' is an alternative
expression, kind of nickname for '<em>beave</em>r', and the village where
the above story played was named '<em>Bieberswalde</em>' ('wood of the
beavers').</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><em>'Jältähn'</em> a beaver? Because it's a nocturnal
animal; with the noise it causes it is frightening humans passing by
any pond etc. in night time. I guess that's the background for this
'bogeyman'-stuff...</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">I've had
never before this sight of these connections!</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Allerbest!</font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Jonny Meibohm</font></div></div><br><br>