<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 06 August 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">==============================</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">==============================</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=============</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
"
J.Liek" <<a href="mailto:ir.j.liek@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ir.j.liek@gmail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.08.05 (05) [A/D]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Lowlands-L List schreef:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
From: R. F. Hahn</div></span>Subject: Idiomatica<br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
</div></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
Jakob skryf hierbo:</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
> Ik kan Afrikaans goed
lezen, maar stadig ken ik niet.</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
Ek ken die Afrikaanse woord "stadig" as 'n betekenis vir "geleidelik"
of Nederlands <span style="font-style: italic;">geleidelijk</span>, <span style="font-style: italic;">langzamerhand </span>of <span style="font-style: italic;">langzaam</span>, Engels <span style="font-style: italic;">slow(ly)
</span> of <span style="font-style: italic;">gradual(ly)</span>. Maar kan dit ook
"konstant" beteken, soos Nederlands <span style="font-style: italic;">standvastig</span>,
<span style="font-style: italic;">bestendig</span>? In Nedersaksies
van Duitsland sê ons <span style="font-style: italic;">stedig</span>
(of <span style="font-style: italic;">
stevig</span>) vir Nederlands <span style="font-style: italic;">standvastig</span>
of <span style="font-style: italic;">bestendig</span>. Ek glo dis die
umlaut-vorm van Middelsaksies <span style="font-style: italic;">stadig
</span>, en as 'n leenwoord is dit nog <span style="font-style: italic;">stadig</span> in Deens.</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">
> Jan Lul (sul)</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><div style="direction: ltr;">
Je verhaal is onvolledig. Ik weet wel wat het Nederlandse woord „lul"
betekent. Maar wat voor een mens zal een „Jan Lul" zijn?</div></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">
Groete,</div></span>Reinhard/Ron<br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">
</div></span></div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Zoals erachter staat. Iemand die over zich heen laat lopen, die geen
eigen mening heeft. In Web-woordenboek
</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="http://www.vandale.nl/opzoeken/woordenboek/?zoekwoord=sul" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.vandale.nl/opzoeken/woordenboek/?zoekwoord=sul
</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> vind ik:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
persoon die alles goedvindt, die over zich laat lopen => </span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">doetje,
een brave borst, een zacht ei, snul, softie</i><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Bedankt voor de verklaring van stadig. Ik had al een vaag vermoeden
in die richting. Maar ook (als excuus voor mij) ook in het woordenboek
ontbreekt het.<br><br></span><pre style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" cols="72">Met vriendelijke groet,<br> J. Liek<br>Boulevard de Ruyter 140 * 4381 KD * Vlissingen<br>tel: 0118 435 825 || mob: 0640 04 64 50<br>
<a href="http://oostgat.googlepages.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://oostgat.googlepages.com</a>
</pre>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Maria Elsie Zinsser</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> <<a href="mailto:ezinsser@icon.co.za" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
ezinsser@icon.co.za
</a>></span><span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.08.05
(05) [A/D]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Haai Ron, Jakob,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Stadig in Afrikaans beteken ook vertraagd
(mentally challenged), ongemotiveerd, bedees en nie baie dinamies nie.
Jan Salie pas dus goed hierby. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Nee, Ron, stadig beteken
nie konstant (standvastig) nie maar kan wel 'onophoudelik'
beteken. (Bv: 'Daar was 'n konstante afplatting in die
behuisingsbedryf').</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Groete,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Elsie Zinsser </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: Idiomatica</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Folks,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">I want to try to bring the rest of you in here by using English and summarizing what basically transpired here in Afrikaans and Dutch. There may be some input by people that don't read these languages.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">We've been discussing types of people described by expressions involving personal names with or without modifiers. "Doubting Thomas" for a skeptical person may serve as a good example. Elsie supplied other examples from Afrikaans, some of which are international:
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">Herkules (strong)<br>Goliat (gigantic)<br>Die ware Jakob ("The True Jacob" = genuine)
<br>Jan Salie (slow-witted?)<br>Judas (traitor)<br>Don Juan (womanizer)<br>Don Quichot (foolish dreamer)<br>Xantippe (belligerent wife)
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jakob added to this a Dutch vulgarism:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jan Lul (whimp, indecisive person, person without an opinion)*</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
(* from </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">lul</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">, a word for 'penis', apparently related to English 'loll')</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">In the case of Low Saxon of Germany, there are a couple of interesting things.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">It typically involves true and once very common Low Saxon names that later came to be replaced by their German equivalents, such as Jan (= John, Dutch Jan, now replaced by Johannes, Hannes, Hans) and Hinnerk (= Henry, Dutch Hendrik, now replaced by Heinrich, Hein, Heini).
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jan used to be so common that it served to denote the average guy, as in the expression
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jan un alle Mann</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ("Jan and all men"), sometimes </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Jan un sien Maten</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ("Jan and his mates"),</span> meaning 'each and everybody (equally)', sometimes also as the equivalent of "every Tom, Dick and Harry," namely "every guy".
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Then there is:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Dummerjan </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">(< dummer Jan, "dumb Jan") 'stupid guy'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
And here's an interesting one:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Jan Maat</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
~ </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Janmaat</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ("Jan mate") 'sailor'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">This can be used as an ordinary noun denoting 'sailor'. Apparently, shipmates called Jan used to be that common.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Then we have these:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
iesern Hinnerk</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ("iron Hinnerk") 'strong man'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
höltern Hinnerk</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ("wooden Hinnerk") 'slow-witted guy'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Right now I can't think of any involving women's names. Can anyone else?</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Regards,
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">