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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 07 August 2007 - Volume 07</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_Clarkedavid8@aol.com" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"<a href="mailto:Clarkedavid8@aol.com">Clarkedavid8@aol.com
</a>"</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:Clarkedavid8@aol.com">Clarkedavid8@aol.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.07 (06) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<font color="#000000" size="2">
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<div>In a message dated 07/08/2007 21:17:25 GMT Standard Time,
<a href="mailto:lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">lowlands.list@GMAIL.COM</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" size="2">
<div style="direction: ltr;">Sounds hard but
logical to me...how can you expect the speakers from a <br>dying language to
welcome outside forces, if the very reason why the<br>concerned language is
not surviving is because it was unable/unwilling<br>to cope with major
external (linguistic) influence?<br><br>Methinks, adaptation, survival of the
fittest, does not only apply to <br>biology.<br><br>Kind greetings,<br></div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><span><br>Luc Hellinckx<br></span></div></font></blockquote></div>
<div>I think it is very naive and even dangerous to equate the survival and
extinction of languages with the survival and extinction of natural organisms.
Languages usually flourish because they happen to be spoken by a hegemonistic
community, not because they are in any way intrinsically superior than languages
that die out.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>David Clarke<br><br>----------<br><br>From: <span id="_user_sandy@scotstext.org" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Sandy Fleming</span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">
sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal;" class="lg"></span><br>Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.06 (06) [E]<br><br>> From: R. F. Hahn <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject: Language maintenance<br>><br>> Hi, Mike!<br>><br>> Thanks, but for the record: you quoted not me but David Clark who<br>> wrote that in response to my request for responses.
<br>><br>> Be that as it may, I must say that I've long tried to grapple with the<br>> type of attitude the two of you referred to.<br><br>I have to say that when I was living in Wales and learning Welsh all<br>
Welsh speakers were very helpful about it. The only problem I had was<br>with Welsh nationals who didn't speak Welsh and didn't see the point.<br><br>Is it possible that the problem is partly with the learner? I think that
<br>one barrier might be language learners who try to speak the language but<br>don't seem interested in the culture. When I was learning Welsh I also<br>read up on things like Madog, the Bells of Aberdovey, Welsh history, I
<br>watched the Welsh TV channels (usually only subtitled in English, alas,<br>when I lived there) and so on, and this gave a basis for conversation so<br>that I didn't keep tripping up on things that were common knowledge
<br>amongst Welsh speakers. I could also ask intelligent questions about<br>such stuff and draw Welsh speakers into my conversation.<br><br>> * Linguistic tribalism ("Language is part of 'us against them
<br>> (the power majority and outside)'.")<br>> * Linguistic exclusivity ("It's our language, our secret<br>> code, and nobody else should touch or even use it.")
<br>> * Linguistic chauvinism ("Only we are the keepers of the proper<br>> language.")<br>> * Linguistic racism ("No one that doesn't look like us<br>> can possibly speak like us and understand our
<br>> culture.")<br><br>Strategically pruning a few bullet points that I don't encounter, these<br>are the sort of attitudes I'm facing at the moment in the Deaf<br>communities here with respect to BSL.
<br><br>Again, I think learners can do things to help themselves, especially if<br>they go about in gangs like me and my former BSL classmates do :)<br><br>Then again, I wouldn't want to overgeneralise: the attitude of the Deaf
<br>in one town can be completely different from that in another and on top<br>of that there are always individual differences of opinion.<br><br>In many towns around here the Deaf are only too pleased to find their<br>clubs (or, more common these days, pub meets) swelled by an influx of
<br>language students, hearing and otherwise. On the other hand, my local<br>town has been notorious for objecting vehemently to any hearing people<br>turning up at the club. Last year me and another student retaliated by
<br>forming our regular BSL student meet, and then we kept inviting Deaf<br>people to it. As a result, the native Deaf here have started to accept<br>the idea of hearing students coming along to their club, because they<br>
come to ours and get used to our faces and end up owing us the return<br>favour and so on.<br><br>I think if you're having these sort of attitude problems the ball is in<br>your court: the attitudes are there and won't change if you just let
<br>them be.<br><span class="sg"><br>Sandy Fleming<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a><br></span><br><br></div></font> </div>
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