<font size="2"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 02 October 2007 - Volume 10</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span>
<span id="_user_sandy@scotstext.org" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Sandy Fleming</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">
sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.10.02 (01) [D/E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></font><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span class="q">> From: "<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">
heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>" <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>><br>> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica"
2007.10.01 (10) [E]<br>><br></span></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span class="q">> What do Lowlanders 'see' in their mind's eye when they hear " None of
<br>> the men ... wearing hats ( or a hat). Do you see one man without a hat<br>> or several men without hats?<br><br></span></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">What do you mean by the ellipsis?
<br></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span class="q"><br>> 'None of the men were wearing hats/ a hat' seems much more logical<br>> visually speaking.<br>
<br></span></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I'd say the semantics of living languages involves logic, common sense,<br>context and idiom, not just logic. A common way of making dialects or
<br>minority languages seem inferior to language in the form in which it's<br>taught in schools is by trying to point out where dialects are less<br>logical, as if that matters.<br><br>Consider a line from Burns's song, "My Nannie's Awa":
<br><br>"And listens the lambies that bleat ower the braes."<br><br>Logically this means that the lambs are listening, but in fact, taking<br>the context into account, it means that you can hear the lambs if you
<br>listen.<br><br>Similarly "herken" (harken) in Scots can be used to mean either "listen<br>carefully" or "whisper".<br><br>There are other kinds of inverted logic in living language that are
<br>clear because the "logical" meaning would make no sense, eg, "There you<br>go with your trousers all hanging out," or "If I could of Jove's nectar<br>sup, I would not trade for thine."
<br><br>All sorts of ambiguity is also acceptable if the context makes it clear,<br>"Let's go and see the monkeys, they've got gorillas," or "You smell."<br><br>And with idiom logic tends to go right out the window: "Poor soul,"
<br>"I'll teach you to steal my flowers," "I nearly split my sides<br>laughing," "It's a big if."<br></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">
<span class="q"><br>> What does BSL do, Sandy, to express the same idea?<br><br></span></font></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">"Everybody, hat none."<br><br>Though personally I'd be more likely to say, "All your hat are belong to
<br>us!" :)<br></font></div><font size="2"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="sg"><br>Sandy Fleming<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">
http://scotstext.org/</a><br><br>----------<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.10.01 (10) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></font><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px;">
<p><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" size="2">From: R. F. Hahn < <a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Idiomatica<br><br>Folks,<br><br>Tonight I was reminded of another idiomatic difference between American English and non-American English. <br><br>"The children are <span style="text-decoration: underline;">pressurised
</span> to abandon their parents' language and culture."<br><br>In American English this would be <span style="text-decoration: underline;">pressured</span>.<br><br>Am I right in assuming that to American ears "pressurized" sounds like
<span style="font-style: italic;">literally</span> put under pressure or receiving additional pressure, such as air or gas pumped into them?<br><br>On the other hand, in non-American English you say "The house got <span style="text-decoration: underline;">
burgled</span> , and the burglar is still at large," while "to burgle" doesn't exist in American English and you say "The house got <span style="text-decoration: underline;">burglarized</span>, and the burglar is still at large."
<br><br>Another one: "Good night from <span style="text-decoration: underline;">all the</span> team!"<br><br>In American this would be "Good night from <span style="text-decoration: underline;">the whole </span>
team!"<br><br>The
way I see it, in American English a team or a similar body of people is
a singular unit, while in non-American English the members are the
focus. Similarly non-American "they" vs American "it" for nouns like
"team" or "government." <br><br>American
English rarely uses "all the" in case of singulars, and then perhaps
only because of archaic idiomatic expressions. For example, you can say
"for all the world to see," but "for the whole world to see" sounds
right too. <br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron •</font><font size="2"><br></font></p></div><div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I get increasingly unsure about US/UK differences these days; we hear so much American that it all tends to sound "right".
</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">But
I think we are possibly quicker to adapt as result of that. For
example, successful US TV shows are simply shown here, and enjoy
success here too: "Friends", "Seinfeld", "NCIS" "The Simpsons" etc.
need no translation or explanation. On the other hand, a successful
British show will be re-made in the US, with American actors: "The
Office", "Cracker" are a couple of examples. American audiences
apparently just aren't comfortable with "foreigners" on the
television. The different accents and cultural background would
obviously be distraction from the plot or story.</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">There are probably deeper, political ramifications to that. But I'm not going there....</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Paul Finlow-Bates</font></div><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_ben.j.bloomgren@gmail.com" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
"Ben J. Bloomgren" <<a href="mailto:ben.j.bloomgren@gmail.com">ben.j.bloomgren@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.10.01 (10) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></font>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Folks,</font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Tonight I was reminded of another idiomatic
difference between American English and non-American English. </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">"The children are pressurised to abandon their
parents' language and culture."</font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">In American English this would be
pressured.</font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Am I right in assuming that to American ears
"pressurized" sounds like literally put under pressure or receiving additional
pressure, such as air or gas pumped into them?</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Ron, pressurized does sound weird in this context
to me. I would use it to refer to something like the pressurized air in an
airplane's cabin or maybe the pressurized climate of a politica election. I
would say pressured here because you're influencing them and giving them more
incentive to move away from their roots.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">On the other hand, in non-American English you say
"The house got burgled , and the burglar is still at large," while "to burgle"
doesn't exist in American English and you say "The house got burglarized, and
the burglar is still at large."</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Burgle sounds like an imitation of something
bubbling. Like a weird way to say gurgle.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Another one: "Good night from all the
team!"</font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">In American this would be "Good night from the
whole team!"</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It's a little off but it'd work.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><br></font><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">The way I see it, in American English a team or a
similar body of people is a singular unit, while in non-American English the
members are the focus. </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></font><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Similarly non-American "they" vs American "it"
for nouns like "team" or "government." </span></font></div></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">It is so strange to me to hear the announcers on
BBC saying things like "Arsenal want to do x or y". Hello? Are we talking about
an arsenal of weapons somewhere or about the soccer (not football!) team? It
wouldn't surprise me to know that we have multiple governments, but I'd like to
think we just have one!</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"> </font></div><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" face="Arial" size="2"></font><font size="2"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></font>