<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 12 October 2007 - Volume 07</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: Danette & John Howland <
<a href="mailto:dan_how@msn.com">dan_how@msn.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.13 (02) [E]</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Marlou wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"Humans seem to see widely used words as given wholes and do not question their spelling. The power of habit :-)"
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Here's a pretty good article in English on word recognition:
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx">http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx</a></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Best to all,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">John Howland</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_marless@gmx.de" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"M.-L. Lessing"
</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:marless@gmx.de">marless@gmx.de</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.13 (02) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" id="mb_2">
<div>
<div><br>Heather wrote: </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102); margin-left: 40px;">Wasn't it more that French was used as the language of diplomacy because it
is the language least likely to produce ambiguities? I had understood that
English produced too many or needed copious circumlocutions to avoid them but
French has a precision not least because of its lack of synonyms.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hmm??? Since when is precision and avoiding ambiguities the object of
diplomacy? It might be their ruin. No more papers, statements and UN
resolutions that harm nobody...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Marlou <br></div></div>
</div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span id="_user_roger.thijs@euro-support.be" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">"Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc." <<a href="mailto:roger.thijs@euro-support.be">roger.thijs@euro-support.be
</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.10.11 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
> From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject: Language
politics<br></font><font size="3"><font size="2">> </font>I believe that Dutch had virtually no impact in
Belgian colonies.</font></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Important is what
language the administration uses. The positioning of Dutch in Belgium came too
late for having a major impact.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Chronology of the
<strong>Congo</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1885 The
independent state of Congo is recognized (directly ruled by the Belgian
king)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1908 Belgium takes
over the Congo</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1960 Congo becomes
independent</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Chronology of the
official position of <strong>Dutch in Belgium</strong>
(simplified)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1883 Dutch allowed
as teaching language in middle schools in the North of Belgium (for ages 12-14:
but only for teaching Germanic languages for ages
15-18)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1898 French and
Dutch versions of enacted law equivalent (before Dutch versions were just
considered "translations")</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1914-18 WWI (Belgium occupied by the Germans, except for the
Westhoek in Flanders)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1916 administative autonomy of "Vlaanderen" (Northern Belgium)
(till 1918)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1917 Dutch as administrative language in Brussels (till
1918)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1918ff anti-Germanic repression</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1922 Dutch allowed
for some courses at Ghent University</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1930 Dutch the
language of Ghent University</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1932 Dutch
administrative language in municipalities with a Dutch-declared majority in the
language censi (once every 10 years, making flipping situations for the
administrative language in some municipalities).</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1934 Dutch as
language in courts in Northern Belgium</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1940-44 WWII
(Belgium occupied by Nazi-Germany)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1945ff
anti-Germanic (incl. anti-Flemish) repression</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1947 desastrous
recession of declared Dutch along the language border in the 1947
census</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">1962-1963 Dutch
administrative language North of a frozen language border (no more censi
shifts)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Comments:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">The language censi allowed only choices between Dutch, French
and German. The linguisically Limburgish speaking Sippenaeken became suddenly
French as result of the 1930 census since Limburgish speakers were
divided between Dutch an German, allowing French to win)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">There have been some actions in favor of <strong>Dutch in the
Congo</strong>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">In 1956 a judge ruled in Dutch in Elisabethstad, this was
undone though in appeal. Protests have been leading to the law of 5
feb 1957 for allowing the use of both Dutch and French in courts in the Congo.
As a secondary result, internal notes of the administration became bilingual
French-Dutch.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Some Dutch-language <u>magazines</u> at the time in Kongo:
"<strong>Band</strong>", "<strong>Zuiderkruis</strong>", "<strong>De
Week</strong>".</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">A <u>daily</u> newspaper "<strong>Standpunten</strong>" was
published in Elisabethstad, but it lasted only for one year.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">"<u>Radio Belgisch-Kongo</u>" had Dutch language programs from
WWII till July 7, 1960.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Dutch was used as language in several <u>primary schools (ages
6-12)</u>.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">There were only Dutch-language <u>secondary schools (ages
12-18)</u> in Leopoldstad, Elisabethstad, Bukavu and
Luluaburg.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I remember from pictures they had a mixed population (colonial
+ local).</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Personal memory:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">I remember as a kid in 1959 (the year before independence)
that some Congolese guys of about 16-18 were hosted in our village as guest of
the "Kajotters", an organization of young Christian workers. I guess it was part
of a program of formation before the independence. The Congolese guys were
somehow an attraction in our rural Limburgish village. They spoke Dutch
fairly well (even better than us kids, speakers of Limburgish). It was a kind of
Belgian-radio Dutch they spoke.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Concluding:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">too little too late for having a lasting result.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">PS. I found a reference (but I don't have the
book):</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>- A. Verthé en B. Henry, Geschiedenis van de
Vlaams-Afrikaanse Letterkunde (1961, Leuven, Davidsfonds)</strong></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">(Walter Geerts used it as basis for a contribution about
literature in the Kongo in the Encyclopedie van de Vlaamse Beweging,
1973)</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">"Vlaams-Afrikaans" = Belgian Dutch of the Congo.</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Reference found on a page on the
internet:</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><strong>- Band en Zuiderkruis. Historisch overzicht van het
Nederlands in Midden-Afrika<br></strong>(J. Deleu) Ons Erfdeel - 1961, nr 2, pp.
35-37</font> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="2">Roger</font><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></div><br><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>>
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28); font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: Language politics<br><br>Thanks for all of that, Roger!</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
You commented:</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px;"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
The language censi allowed only choices between Dutch, French
and German. The linguisically Limburgish speaking Sippenaeken became suddenly
French as result of the 1930 census since Limburgish speakers were
divided between Dutch an German, allowing French to win)</span></font><br></div><font size="2"><br><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Which leaves out Walloon (and I mean </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
real</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> Walloon, not Belgian French). Sure, most Walloons use French in writing all or most of the time.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From where I stand, Walloon looks like a separate </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">langue d'oïl</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
language that has poor or little mutual intelligibility with French, except that all Walloons know French as well and thus think the two are more closely related than they are from the point of view of a French speaker with no prior Walloon exposure.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">(Most Walloon speakers live in Southern Belgium, a minority in adjacent parts of France (
</span></font><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">botte de Givet</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> in the Northern Ardennes)</span><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"> and also in two communities (
</font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Doncols and Sonlez)</span><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"> in Luxemburg and in </font><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Door County, Wisconsin,
</span><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"> USA</font><font size="2"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">.)</span><br><br>So how does Walloon fit in here?<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></font>
</div>
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