<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 20 October 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span>
<span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Diederik Masure</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> <<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.15 (01) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
From: Jaap Liek <<a href="mailto:ir.j.liek@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ir.j.liek@gmail.com</a>></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.14 (05) [E]</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<div style="direction: ltr;"> </div>In het Schouws (Noord-Zeeuws) noemen we dat insect een 'mogge'.</span><br><span></span></div>
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ok...
this friend spoke (speaks) the archaic dialect of Alblasserwaard/-dam
or some place about there, I guess the unrounding isn't the same
everywhere... </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <
</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);" href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
></span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.10.14 (05) [E]</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span>
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">What Diederick (ha, hoe gaat het met jou?) wrote is true for short u.</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span>
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">Written u in closed syllables stands for the short sound [Y] or rather [2]</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">in Standard Dutch, and for [U] in German. U in open syllables in Dutch is
</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">[y], or [y:] before r. In close syllables, this is spelt uu. Examples:</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
<span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">rug [r2x] = back, bukken ["b2k@] = to bend; futen ["fyt@] = a kind of</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
water bird (plural), buren ["by:r@] = neighbors; huur [hy:r] = rent; fuut </span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">[fyt] = a kind of water bird (singular). In German, long u = [u:],
</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">sometimes spelt uh. I thought, Ben, you were not asking about Old Germanic</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
<span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">u, only how it is used in ortho and prono in Dutch and German nowadays, is </span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">
that true? Well, the state border is the pronunciation border as well in</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">this case: e.g. at the Dutch side of the border "natuur" = [na"ty:r], and
</span></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 102);">at the German side it's "Natur" = [na"thu:9]. </span></span><br><span></span></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ah
yes, only after sending the mail I remembered that /y/ actually is
pronounced /Y/ in the Netherlands and parts of Belgium... I keep
stubbornly using my /y/ (and long /y./ [or /Y./] with distinctive
length for uu) even when speaking more or less standard Dutch - the /Y/
is something most people I know don't manage to get over their lips
(similar with /i/ vs. /I/- for being Hollandic, or even worse,
West-Flemish (no offence - this however is how the average
Aantwaarpener sees it). And of course we don't want to sound like
people in de Vlönders with their strange /e/ instead of /i/ etc...;) </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">I
myself keep talking after my sister/repeating what she says whenever
she produces those weird /Y/ and /I/'s. Stupid "dictie"classes. </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Thus; although not officially, /y/ actually is used quite a lot in belgian (sub)standard dutch.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">But the actual pronounciation of /y/ or /Y/ doesn't affect the main point of my above explanation anyway:)
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">