<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 26 October 2007 - Volume 02</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span>
<span id="_user_jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">jonny</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"> <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de">
jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.10.25 (06) [E/German]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font size="4">Beste Lowlanners,
Ron,</font></span></div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font size="4">you wrote:</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>> Similarly, the obvious
choice *<span style="font-style: italic;">Tieding</span> (cognate of English
"tiding" = "news") as a counterpart of German <span style="font-style: italic;">Zeitung</span> 'newspaper' doesn't
</span></div>
<div><span>> work. So you hear some
people say for instance <span style="font-style: italic;">Blatt ~ Bladd</span>
'leaf', 'paper', 'newsletter' (cognate of English "blade"), while other people
</span></div>
<div><span>> borrow the German word
<span style="font-style: italic;">Zeitung</span>. In Middle Saxon, <span style="font-style: italic;">tyding(e)</span> was in fact used to mean
'news'.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div></span>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font size="4">Some time ago I read a
text written during the transition phase between Middle Low Saxon and
Modern Low Saxon, in this case between A.D. 1560 and 1640. The
text is originating from our region and deals with regulations regarding
dikes and drainage systems.</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font size="4">The _ing_ and _inge_-endings
still had been very common in that time, as you mention
above.</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font size="4">Two special words I remember:
'schoveninge', meaning LS 'Schau' in the sense of '(annual) control', today
mostly used with suffixes like 'Diek(-schau)' / E: control of the
dikes; 'Polder(-schau)' / E: control of the drainage
systems.</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span><font size="4">The other one is 'bott[h]ing',
which could be translated as G: 'Erlass', 'Verordnung', E: 'edict' decreed
by a high authority.</font></span></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="4"><span>So, now my question: is this
old -ing[e], which became in Standard German -ung in its origin denoting a
"continuativum" (continous aspect) </span> <span>like in English 'he is talk-ing'? Or is/was it in the
(continental) German languages always just a suffix to substantivate a
verbum, as de.wiktionary here: <a href="http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ung" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ung</a>
says?</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="4"><span>I for my person see a clear
difference between G: '(das) Vorles<u>en</u>' and G: '(die) Vorles<u>ung</u>'-
the first just any casual incidence, the latter a continuing,
institutionalized line of similar events.</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="4"><span></span></font> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="4"><span>Do we/you find anything
comparable in (closely) related languages?</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span></span> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" align="left"><font size="2"><span>Thanks in award for any
answer:</span></font></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" align="left"><font size="2"> </font></div>
<font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><font size="2">Jonny Meibohm<br><br>----------<br><br></font><font size="2">
From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>Subject: Morphology<br><br>Hi, Jonny!<br></font><br>Like you, I perceive distinct differences between deverbal nouns with
<span style="font-style: italic;">-en</span> and <span style="font-style: italic;">-ung</span> in German. In fact, in many or most cases they are lexicalized differently, thus require different translations in English and other languages, as in this case:
<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Vor dem Einschlafen darf <span style="text-decoration: underline;">das Vorlesen</span> nie fehlen.</span><br>There is no falling asleep without <span style="text-decoration: underline;">
being read to</span> before.<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Bei <span style="text-decoration: underline;">der Vorlesung</span> schlief fast jeder ein.<br></span>Almost everyone fell asleep during <span style="text-decoration: underline;">
the lecture</span>.<br><br>The common verb is <span style="font-style: italic;">lesen</span> 'to read', and the common prefix is 'fore-' (as in 'before' or 'in front (of)').<br><br>Furthermore, I perceive nouns with
<span style="font-style: italic;">-en</span> as at least directly linked with, if not identical to, the infinitive, the only difference being that as a generally perceived noun it may come with a definite article; e.g.,<br>
<br><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Sie mag nicht gern <span style="text-decoration: underline;">vorlesen</span></span></span>.<br>She does not like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">
to read to people<span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span>.<br><br>But:<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Sie mag <span style="text-decoration: underline;">das Vorlesen</span> nicht gern.<br></span>(She does not like
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">the act of reading to people</span>.)<br></font><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">She does not like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">to read </span></font>
<font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">to</span></font><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> people<span style="font-style: italic;">
</span></span>. ~ She does not like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">to be read to</span>.<span style="font-style: italic;"><br></span>(This depends on the context.)<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Sie mag
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">die Vorlesung</span> nicht gern.</span><br>She does not like <span style="text-decoration: underline;">the lecture</span>.<br><br>I think it is rare, if not impossible, that <span style="font-style: italic;">
-en</span> and <span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">-</span>ung </span>nouns are equal in usage. At best, there may be marginal cases in which you would use the same word in English translations;
e.g.,<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Vor dem Sonnenuntergang ist </span><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-style: italic;">das Füttern</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> der Kühe nicht erforderlich.
</span><br>(<span style="text-decoration: underline;">The </span>) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Feeding</span> (of) the cows before sunset is not required.<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">Jüngere Kühe benötigen
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">eine</span> zusätzliche <span style="text-decoration: underline;">F</span></span></font><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="font-style: italic; text-decoration: underline;">
ütterung</span><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span>. ~<br></span></font><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="font-style: italic;">Jüngere Kühe benötigen
<span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>zusätzliches <span style="text-decoration: underline;">F</span></span></font><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="font-style: italic; text-decoration: underline;">
üttern</span><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span>.</span></font><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" size="2">Younger cows require
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">an</span> addition <span style="text-decoration: underline;">feeding</span>.<br></font><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As in the case of </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">vorlesen</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> above, lexicalizing often results in nouns with rather different meanings;
e.g., </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-style: italic;">sehen</span></span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'to see' > </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Vorsehen</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> (~ </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Vorsicht</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">) 'caution', 'circumspection' v
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Vorsehung</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'destiny', 'providence'.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">The present participial "-ing" (as in "the sleep</span><span style="text-decoration: underline; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
ing</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> baby") may be unique to English and Scots. Or is it?</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
I think you are right, Jonny, in implying that the time of the demise of </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">-ing</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> in most Northern Low Saxon dialects occurred during or just after the end of what is generally known as the "transitional period," ca. 1680-1800. (I think this was also the gtransition of
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">van</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> to </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">von</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
~ </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">vun</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">.) This was the time of transition from Middle Saxon to Modern (Low) Saxon. It coincided with accelerating German encroachment through officialdom and formal education and simultaneous marginalization of Low Saxon, involving the abandonment of the language from pretty much all "educated" circles and from circles that wanted to
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">appear </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">educated. Especially in surviving letters and casual notes of the time you notice strong Low Saxon interference and very awkward, obviously non-native use of German.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">