<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 30 October 2007 - Volume 01</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: "Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong" <
<a href="mailto:Dutchmatters@comcast.net">Dutchmatters@comcast.net</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (05) [E]
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hello Jonny, You say:
"</span></font><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">For my opinion
it made a funny metamorphosis from O.E. 'to mislead', 'to hinder', 'to go
astray' to its modern meaning 'to live', 'to exist' , 'to lie (upon)'<font color="blue"><span style="color: blue;">. </span></font></span></font><font color="blue"><span style="color: blue;">In modern Dutch
</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">we know both
"dwalen" and "ronddwalen: as to roam and
"verdwalen" as to get lost.</span></font><font color="blue"><span style="color: blue;"> Since
we can assume that in those very difficult times one had to "dwaal"
a long time before one could find a place to "dwell" (is that not a
perfect Ablaut?), and that if one did not find a place to dwell one was
"verdwaald" = lost. At least that part makes sense.</span></font></p><p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font><font color="blue"><span style="color: blue;">
You
then say: </span></font><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">, but in
our LS: 'dweylen', 'dweelen' means G: 'schwanken', 'schlingern', 'umherwandern'
(preferably used for the movements of a drunken person), E: 'to wobble', 'to
roll', 'to ramble'. An LS noun 'dweul' is G: 'Feudel', 'Mop', E: 'mop',
and in Dutch 'dwelen(??)' also means E: 'to clean with a mop'.</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">I would like to propose that if you see someone who is bent over and
cleaning the floor with a heavy piece of heavy fabric by swaying side to side
with one's backside (We call this action "dweilen" and the
fabric is called a "dweil" ) it is not a pretty sight.</span></font></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> On
the other hand we have the word "dwaal" with meanings of altarcloth,
towel or napkin as an alternative form for "dweil"</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> Van
Dale gives the following etymology for both words: MD dwale, dwael, dwele; </span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">MLG</span></font><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">
: dwele; OHG dwahlia, dwehila
(towel) to go with dwahal (bath) going back to gothic words for bath, baptism.
In other words, "dweilen" is giving the floor a bath with an old
cloth.</span></font></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><font color="navy" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">At least it makes sense
to me. Greetings Jacqueline</span></font></p><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: Jaap Liek <<a href="mailto:ir.j.liek@gmail.com">ir.j.liek@gmail.com</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28
(05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Beste Jonny,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
In Dutch: verb = dweilen, noun = dweil</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">--</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Jaap Liek <</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ir.j.liek@gmail.com">ir.j.liek@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">>
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_sandy@scotstext.org" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Sandy Fleming</span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg">
<<a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">sandy@scotstext.org</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (03) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">> From: "Ben J. Bloomgren" <
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:ben.j.bloomgren@gmail.com">ben.j.bloomgren@gmail.com</a>><br>> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.27 (02) [E]<br><br></span><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span class="q">> Sandy and all,<br>><br>> When you say "huish", are you using the ui like the Dutch orthography<br>> uses it, or is it pronoun ced, like my screenreader aledges, Hewish?<br><br></span>
</div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Ben,<br><br>It's pronounced "hewish" as your screenreader says. In fact it's spelled<br>"Hewish" in some place names, and there's a surname "Hewish" which I
<br>suppose could be the same word.<br><br>Do you mind telling me how your reader informs you of both the spelling<br>and its rendered pronunciation of it? I was thinking of writing the<br>letters separately when explaining the spellings, but it would seem that
<br>this isn't necessary.<br></div><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span class="sg"><br>Sandy Fleming<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">
http://scotstext.org/</a></span></div><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">
wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q">From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">jonny</span><span style="font-weight: normal;"> <<a href="mailto:jonny.meibohm@arcor.de" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
jonny.meibohm@arcor.de</a>></span> <br>Subject: LL-L "Etymology"<br><br> <div><span><font size="4">Beste Lowlanners,</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font size="4">these days I learned the English word 'to dwell' and its family.
</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font size="4">For
my opinion it made a funny metamorphosis from O.E. 'to mislead', 'to
hinder', 'to go astray' to its modern meaning 'to live', 'to exist' ,
'to lie (upon)'.</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font size="4">I
don't find any related word in Standard German, but in our LS:
'dweylen', 'dweelen' means G: 'schwanken', 'schlingern', 'umherwandern'
(preferably used for the movements of a drunken person), E: 'to
wobble', 'to roll', 'to ramble'. An LS noun 'dweul' is G: 'Feudel',
'Mop', E: 'mop', and in Dutch 'dwelen(??)' also means E: 'to clean with
a mop'.</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font size="4">My
researches in etymological dictionaries didn't help very much, so I
hope one or some of you might be able to bring bright light into the
darkness of this curious development.</font></span></div> <div> </div> <div align="left">Allerbest!</div> <div align="left"> </div> <div align="left">Jonny Meibohm</div></span><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
I think Old Norse "dvelja" has a meaning more like Modern English</div><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="sg"> <div> </div> <div>Paul Finlow-Bates</div></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">From: </span><span id="_user_wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0); font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Paul Finlow-Bates <<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><span style="font-weight: normal; font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="lg"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (03) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">All:</div> <div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Thanks for all the "tun" information
</div> <div style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> </div> <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Paul Finlow-Bates</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" class="q"></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Subject: Etymology</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
The English verb "to dwell" is weirdly interesting in that it seems to have undergone quite a semantic stretch. It's original meaning seems to be something like *"to go astray" or *"to lose one's way". Might this indicate that "to dwell at a place" originally meant "to camp while lost out in the wilds"?
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">As a transitive verb Old English </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
dwellan</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> means 'to lead astray', 'to hinder', 'to delay. As an intransitive verb it means 'to go astray', 'to be hindered', 'to be delayed'. This in itself is interesting in that the intransitive verb practically forms the passive of the transitive version's meaning.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Perhaps you can still find a remnant of the temporary aspect in a phrase like "let's not dwell on this."
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Old Norse has </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
dvelja</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'to delay', 'to retard'. Old German has </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">twellan</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
with the same meanings.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Old Saxon has </span><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
fordwelan</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'to leave off', 'to cease'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Middle Dutch has </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">dwellen</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'to stun', 'to make giddy', 'to perplex'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Old German </span><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">gitwelan</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> means 'to be stunned', 'benumbed', 'torpid', 'to cease', 'to leave off', 'to give up'
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Old English past participial </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
gedwolen </span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">means 'gone astray', 'gone wrong', 'perverted'</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">So something about "going wrong," "confusing" and "(temporarily) stopping" seems to be going on here. This sounds familiar: being lost and confused. (But you don't ask for directions if you have the Y chromosome.)
</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Related to this group appears to be Sanskrit ध्वॄ- </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
dhvṛ- ~</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> धूर- </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">dūr-</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> 'to mislead', 'to deceive', from Indo-Aryan *
</span><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">dhwel-</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> ~ </span><i style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">dhul-</i><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">And talking about such, let me take you back to our recent discussion about "settlement" and "to settle." Did any of you boys and girls pay attention, as I hoped you would, and make the connection between it and my preceding diatribe about the "frequentive" or "iterative" suffix
</span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">-l-</span><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">?</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">So, if "settle" is related to "sit" and "set" -- which seems to be fairly safe to assume -- then we must conclude that "to settle" and its cognates were originally used to denote something like *"to temporarily settle/dwell (as one does time and time again on a journey)." So this may take us back to the good old days on long journeys, perhaps migration.
<br><br>So the phrase "to settle down once and for all" may be a bit of an oxymoron.</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,sans-serif;">