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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 16 November 2007 - Volume 06
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">
Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Language use" 2007.11.16 (01) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: <span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);"> Helge Tietz</span> <span><<a href="mailto:helgetietz@yahoo.com" target="_blank">helgetietz@yahoo.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2007.11.15 (05) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br>>Dear Paul,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>I have to admit, I don't really understand your comment there at the end of >Jonny's little ancdote.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hi Helge,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Nothing
to do with hunting! My comment was based on Johnny's suggestion that if
he'd used Standard German, he would have been met with an angry
reaction. I only speak Standard German, so I assume I would get the
same bad reaction in the North. That's why I said I'd give the North a
miss. ( I also speak some Afrikaans and a bit of Dutch but I don't
suppose they'd help much). What I find even more surprising is that
other Lowlanders seem to regard this anti-German feeling as a good
thing, to be encouraged.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Going
in the other direction, I certainly met with no hostility in Austria
because I can't speak the Tyrolean of the Zillertal; they just spoke
standard German to me.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><br>> A Londoner would
expect that a person who comes to live in his town learns >the
English language in a way that he/she understands it, what is normal
and >perfectly alright for a Londoner is then suddenly chauvinism if
the same >demands come from a Low Saxon or, let's say a Geordie or
Scotsman? I don't >see the difference.<br><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In England or Scotland, this is definitely </span><span style="font-style: italic; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
not </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">the
case. People here don't like outsiders trying to speak the local
dialect, they assume you are making fun their speech. They expect
Standard English, even if spoken in the visitor's own accent. Geordies
outside the Northeast tend to say "go" rather than "gan", "our" rather
than "wor", "can't" rather than "canna" but they still have
Northumberland accents.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">If
an outsider lives in an area long enough to naturally acquire some of
the local speech pattern, that's fine, but trying to "speak native"
will win you few friends anywhere in Britain.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Cheers</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>Paul<br></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Language use<br><br>Hi, Paul!<br><br>Obviously I can't speak for Jonny, but I can tell you that I didn't get your meaning right away either.
<br><br>The way I understood Jonny's point was that the use of Low Saxon introduced a more familial tone that diffused a volatile situation. The guy was not pleased, but Jonny's demeanor, accentuated by his use of local lingo, took the sting out of it.
<br><br>I am not saying that there isn't a north-south divide. There is or at least used to be (that is fundamentally of religious origin, and I bear personal witness). However, I don't think Jonny's story was really about that. I think it was about Standard German as a "neutral" lingua franca that tends to maintain a certain distance between strangers by default. In part this is because it requires you to use polite forms. In rural areas, use of the standard form tends to be associated with city folk and Germany "out there," as opposed to people within the familial environment of the village. So this could very well be the nearest city, not necessarily a city in the south. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure the guy could tell by Jonny's accent that he was a North German. However, Jonny, by using the local lingo, even though the guy couldn't speak it himself, signaled that he lived in or came from the very area.
<br><br>So what we seem to be dealing with here is a code choice for the purpose of symbolically setting a cultural and social tone. ("I'm not one of those city snobs that exploit our area for occasional hunting adventures and due to ignorance and incompetence wreak havoc on locals' lives and livelihood.") So, if it was about stereotyping and prejudices, it probably was a country-versus-city thing rather than a north-versus-south thing.
<br><br>As you may have noticed on occasion, people in rural Northern Germany tend to (mistakenly) believe that proficiency in Low Saxon is exclusively rural, that this is one of the things that differentiate them from city dwellers. I believe that this is one of the reasons why some of them are surprised by city dwellers' use and proficiency of the language and why they like to dismiss it as unauthentic and plain wrong, especially when different and new expressions are used. Thereby they seem to be declaring urban use of the language invalid, this being an attempt to neutralize what they perceive as being a threat (= change).
<br><br>That's was my take on it.<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></span>
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