<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br>L O W L A N D S - L - 05 December 2007 - Volume 05<br>Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)
<br>=========================================================================<br><br>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a>> <br>Subject: LL-L "Lexicon"
2007.12.06 (01) [E/LS]<br><br>Dutch does have: vos, los, was, wassen, vlas, bus, but "los" is quite<br>archaic, usually we say "lynx". "Sassen" and "Sassisch" are even more<br>archaic, but
e.g. in the old Hansaic city of Zwolle there is a Sassenpoort<br>= Saxon gate, and "Sassen" or "Zassen" is a family name too.<br>But "Saksisch" is the normally used term, I guess it's a High German loan.
<br><br>I suppose older West Germanic had -chs- [xs] here, rather than -ks,<br>because from chs to ss is a smaller step than from ks to ss.<br>Or would this be a Low Franconian thing, later took over by Low Saxon?<br>Then I'd see a parallel with French, as in more Low Franconian features,
<br>e.g. [u:] -> [y:]<br><br>Ingmar<br><br></font><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: Marcus Buck <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">
list@marcusbuck.org</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.05 (04) [E/LS]</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn < </span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<mailto:</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">>></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
> Subject: Lexicon</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> Good deal, Heiko!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> The sound differences are consistent:</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> Dutch | German</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Dor heff ik mi al fröher mal över wunnert, över ene Saak: Du seggst</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
"Dutch: Sassen". För dat Plattdüütsche stimmt dat, aver Nedderlandsch un</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Nedersaksisch hebbt dor "Saksen". Dat passt also nich ganz to'n Rest.
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hett dor dat Latiensche rinspeelt? Oder wo kummt dat vun af?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hebbt de Sassen op de nedderlandsche Siet vun'e Grenz würklich jemehr
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">egenen Naam ut en annere Spraak övernahmen oder is de Ünnerscheed doch</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
dör Luudgesetten to verkloren?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Marcus Buck</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">----------</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: Lexicon</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal nich
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">för ungood!</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 102);">
L. Saxon</span> | German</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax'
</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Kumpelmenten,</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Reinhard/Ron<br><br></span></font></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
----------</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com
</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Subject: Etymology<br><br>Moyen, Ings!<br><br></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span>You seem to be right, by and large at least.
<b><br></b></font>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="2"><u><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">O.Engl</span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">O.Frisian</span><span style="">
</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">O.Saxon</span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">O.L.Franc.</span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">O.German</span><span style="">
</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">O.Norse</span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">Gothi</span></u><u><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">c</span></u><b><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">fox</span> <span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">???</span><b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">fuhs </span><span style=""> </span>
<span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">fus</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">fuhs</span> <span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"><span style=""> </span></span></b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">
---</span><b><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">faūho</span><br>
</b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">???</span><b> <span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">???</span><b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">lohs </span><span style="">
</span></b>???<b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">luhs</span> <span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">---<b> </b></span><b><span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">
???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">seaxe </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">saxa</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">sahso </span><span style="">
</span></b>???<b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">sahso </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">sax-</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span style="">
</span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">weax</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">wax </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">
wahs </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">wahs</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">wahs </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">
vax</span><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">weaxan</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
waxa</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">wahsan </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">wahsan</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
-wahsan </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">vexa</span> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">wahsjan </span></b><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">fleax </span>
<span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">flax </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">flahs </span><span style=""> </span></b>???<b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
flahs </span><span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">---</span><b><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br><b>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">box </span><span style=""> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">???<b> </b></span><b><span style=""></span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);"></span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">
???</span><b><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);"> </span><span style=""></span></b>???<b> <span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">buhsa </span><span style=""> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);">
buðkr </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span></font>
</p>
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);"></span>However, we don't really know when the shift from /xs/ to /ks/ occurred in the individual varieties, since spelling tends to lag behind.
<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></font>