<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 05 December 2007 - Volume 06
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Song Contest: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/contest/">lowlands-l.net/contest/</a> (- 31 Dec. 2007)</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">
Marcus Buck</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.06 (01) [E/LS]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
From: R. F. Hahn < <a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject: Lexicon<br>><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
> Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal<br>> nich för ungood!<br>><br>> L. Saxon | German<br>> vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'<br>> los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx'
<br>> Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)'<br>> was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax'<br>> wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'<br>> vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax'<br>> büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'
<br>><br>> Kumpelmenten,<br>> Reinhard/Ron<br>><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ik heff mi al dacht, dat dat so meent weer ;-) Aver bi Voss, Loss, Wass,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Vlass un Buss hebbt Nedderlandsch un Plattdüütsch desülven Wöör. Blot bi</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Sassen/Saksen is dor de Ünnerscheed. Mien Fraag blifft also.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>Marcus Buck</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br>----------<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">
<span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Henno Brandsma</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl">hennobrandsma@hetnet.nl</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.06 (01) [E/LS]<br><br>
</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: <span style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);"> Marcus Buck</span> <span><<a href="mailto:list@marcusbuck.org" target="_blank">list@marcusbuck.org</a>></span>
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.05 (04) [E/LS]<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn < </span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <mailto:</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"> sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> Subject: Lexicon <br>><br>> Good deal, Heiko!<br>><br>> The sound differences are consistent:
<br>><br>> Dutch | German<br>> vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'<br>> los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx'<br>> Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)' <br>> was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax'<br>> wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'
<br>> vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax'<br>> büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'<br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Dor heff ik mi al fröher mal över wunnert, över ene Saak: Du seggst
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"Dutch: Sassen". För dat Plattdüütsche stimmt dat, aver Nedderlandsch un </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Nedersaksisch hebbt dor "Saksen". Dat passt also nich ganz to'n Rest.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> <span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Hett dor dat Latiensche rinspeelt? Oder wo kummt dat vun af?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> Hebbt de Sassen op de nedderlandsche Siet vun'e Grenz würklich jemehr
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">egenen Naam ut en annere Spraak övernahmen oder is de Ünnerscheed doch </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">dör Luudgesetten to verkloren?</span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br></font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Dit liket sa te wêzen: der besteane wol plaknammen as "Sassenheim" (yn it westen, nuverdernoch), dy't</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
derop tsjutte dat de foarm "Sassen" earder wol gewoan wie.....</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote type="cite"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888">
Marcus Buck</font><br><br>----------<br> <br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank"> sassisch@yahoo.com></a><br> <div>Subject: Lexicon<br><br>Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal nich för ungood!
<br></div></blockquote></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">De WF farianten:</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote type="cite"><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 102);">
L. Saxon</span> | German<br>vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'</div></blockquote></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">foks</div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite">
<div>los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx'</div></blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(gjin eigen wurd, dêr't ik fan wit)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite">
<div>Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)'</div></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Saksen.</div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><div>was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax'
</div></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">waaks (mei rekking foar bylûdkloft, lykas fakentiids)</div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite"><div>wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'
</div></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">waakse</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(byg. yn "folwoeksen", Nederl. "volwassen".)</div><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite">
<div>vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax'</div></blockquote><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">flaaks.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div>büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'
<br></div></blockquote></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">boksen.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">(allinninich foar it part dêr't de skonken yn geane, it geheel hjit fan "broek")
</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Groetnis!</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Henno Brandsma</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="lDACoc">
<<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.06 (05) [E/LS]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">
<br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants' </span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Dor heff ik mi al fröher mal över wunnert, över ene Saak: Du seggst</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
"Dutch: Sassen". För dat Plattdüütsche stimmt dat, aver Nedderlandsch un</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Nedersaksisch hebbt dor "Saksen". Dat passt also nich
ganz to'n Rest. </span></div></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hett dor dat Latiensche rinspeelt? Oder wo kummt dat vun af?</span></div>
</font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Hebbt de Sassen op de nedderlandsche Siet vun'e Grenz würklich jemehr </span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">egenen Naam ut en annere Spraak övernahmen oder is de Ünnerscheed doch</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> dör Luudgesetten to verkloren?
</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Marcus Buck</span></div></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"> <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">----------</span></div></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">> <</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">>
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Subject: Lexicon</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal nich
</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">för ungood!</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 102);"> L. Saxon</span> | German</span></div></font><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">vos (Foss) | Fuchs 'fox'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">los (Loss) | Luchs 'lynx' </span></div></font><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Sassen | Sachsen 'Saxons(-y)'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">was (Wass) | Wachs 'wax' </span></div></font><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">wassen | wachsen (wax) 'grow'</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
<font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">vlas (Flass) | Flachs 'flax' </span></div></font><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">büs (Büss) | Büchse 'box', 'pants'
</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"> Kumpelmenten,</span></font><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Reinhard/Ron</span></font><br><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></font><br><font size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></font></div><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> ----------</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">From: R. F. Hahn <
</span><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com </a><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Moyen, Ings!<br><br></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span>You seem to be right, by and large at least. <b><br></b></font> </div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; margin-left: 40px;">
<font size="2"><div class="Ih2E3d"><u><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">O.Engl</span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">O.Frisian</span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">O.Saxon
</span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">O.L.Franc.</span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">O.German</span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">O.Norse</span><span>
</span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">Gothi</span></u><u><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">c</span></u></div><b><br> <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">fox</span> <span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
???</span><b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">fuhs </span><span> </span> <span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">fus</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">fuhs</span> <span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
<span> </span></span></b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);"> ---</span><b><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">faūho</span><br> </b><div class="Ih2E3d"><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">
???</span><b> <span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">???</span><b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">lohs </span><span> </span></b>???<b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
luhs</span> <span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">---<b> </b></span><b><span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);"> ???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">seaxe </span><span>
</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">saxa</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">sahso </span><span> </span></b>???<b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">sahso </span><span>
</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">sax-</span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">weax
</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">wax </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);"> wahs </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">wahs</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
wahs </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);"> vax</span><span> </span><span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">weaxan</span> <span>
</span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"> waxa</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">wahsan </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">wahsan</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">
-wahsan </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">vexa</span> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">wahsjan </span></b><br><b><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">fleax </span> <span> </span>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">flax </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">flahs </span><span> </span></b>???<b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> flahs </span><span> </span>
</b><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 51);">---</span><b><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);"> </span><span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span><br></div><b> <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);">
box </span><span> </span></b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">???<b> </b></span><b><span></span><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);"></span></b><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);">
???</span><b><span style="color: rgb(204, 51, 204);"> </span><span></span></b>???<b> <span> </span><span style="color: rgb(153, 102, 51);">buhsa </span><span> </span><span style="color: rgb(102, 51, 0);"> buðkr </span>
</b><span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);">???</span></font> </div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d"> <div style="margin-left: 40px;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 102, 0);"></span>However,
we don't really know when the shift from /xs/ to /ks/ occurred in the
individual varieties, since spelling tends to lag behind. </font><br><br><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">Regards,</font><br><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">
Reinhard/Ron</font><br></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2"><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span></font> </div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ingmar, Markus, Reinhard and All:
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Interesting
that English retains a sound closer to German than fellow Lowlands
(e.g. we have fox, wax, flax etc., not something like "foss, wass,
flass") So the velar sound clearly faded out after the Anglo-Saxons and
their ilk left the mainland, and they lost any significant contact with
the "Old Country".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>Paul</font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Diederik Masure</span> <span class="lDACoc">
<<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.06 (05) [E/LS]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" face="Arial"><div class="Ih2E3d">>>However, we don't really
know when the shift from /xs/ to /ks/ occurred in the individual
varieties, since spelling tends to lag behind. <br>>><br>>>Regards,<br>>>Reinhard/Ron<br><br></div>Cfr.
the Old Norse spelling <x> with probably actually was pronounced
as chs... Modern Icelandic 'officially' (?) still has x = chs, as we
learned, but the pronunciation with ks seems to be winning a lot of
terrain lately. <br><br>Died<br><br></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">