<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 04 January 2008 - Volume 06
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">
Luc Hellinckx</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology"<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Beste Elsie,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
You wrote:
</span><blockquote style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" type="cite">
<p><span><font color="black" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">It
fascinates me that Afrikaans does not seem to have a cognate
of </span></font></span></p>
<p><span><font color="black" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">the
</span></font></span><b><font color="black"><span style="color: black; font-weight: bold;">Indo-European: </span></font></b><font color="black"><span style="color: black;">*<i><span style="font-style: italic;">leudh-</span>
</i> 'to go freely', 'to grow'<i><span style="font-style: italic;">* > *leudho </span></i>'people'.</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
The word could be hidden in your first, second or third person plural:
wij, jullie or zij (in Dutch);</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
which in Brabantish, is "wij-lie(den)", "gij-lie(den)" and
"zij-lie(den)".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Not sure if lie(den) (or lui) was ever used in Brabantish as a separate
word. "Vollek" (< volk) on the other hand is very popular (sic).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Kind greetings,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Luc Hellinckx</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">
Kevin Caldwell</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net">kevin.caldwell1963@verizon.net</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">English does have a related set of words, in an ecclesiastical context:
laity, laic/laical, lay. But those are more directly from Greek (by way
of Latin and French) and not native English.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Kevin Caldwell
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>Subject: Etymology</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
>By
the way, for some strange reason the cognate word for "people" (Old
English léode, Old Northumbrian lÃoda) seems to have disappeared from
English and Scots also. In English, it disappeared at the end of the
Middle English period (e.g., Fra hys kyn till ane wncouth lede, Wintoun
Chronicles, 1425). In Scots it held on to the early modern stage (e.g.,
For thai me hayt mar na Sotheroun leid, Henry Wallace, 1714).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>Regards,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">>Reinhard/Ron</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Paul Finlow-Bates</span> <span class="lDACoc">
<<a href="mailto:wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk">wolf_thunder51@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">From: R. F. Hahn < <a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><span></span> </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">
Subject: Etymology</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><div class="Ih2E3d">By the way, for some strange reason the cognate word for "people" (Old English
<i>léode</i>, Old Northumbrian </div></span><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">líoda</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">)
seems to have disappeared from English and Scots also. In English, it
disappeared at the end of the Middle English period ( e.g., <i>Fra hys kyn till ane wncouth <u>lede</u></i>, Wintoun Chronicles, 1425). In Scots it held on to the early modern stage (e.g., <i>For thai me hayt mar na
Sotheroun <u>leid</u></i>, Henry Wallace, 1714).</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"></span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Regards, </span>
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153);">Reinhard/Ron</span><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>I
guess we had (and retained) "folc" in various forms, and borrowed the
French "people" as a synonym. Maybe "lede" just got redundant? I
don't know if Norse had any "lede"-like word, but they did have "folk";
if English settles on a Germanic word it is often an Old English one
reinforced by Norse. For example we use "tree" rather than "beam"
because ON and OE had a version of the former. Beam now only survives
as a special meaning, and in tree names like Hornbeam.</span><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"> <div> </div> <div>Paul Finlow-Bates</div></font><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(91, 16, 148);">Diederik Masure</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:didimasure@hotmail.com">
didimasure@hotmail.com</a>></span></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.04 (03) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Lid/lede(n) is not related. I am not sure if it is related to English lid? Or Norwegian led(d)... </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Apart
from lui, Dutch also knows (orig. Southern forms) with -ie-, in
standard language however generally 'lieden' is higher and lui is
slightly more vulgar. </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I'm not sure if lieden/lui is still used
over here, apart from the plural pers. pronouns (wijlie, gijlie, zullie
etc). In Holland (excuse me, the Netherlands) 'lui' for 'mensen' seems
to be quite popular though, at least in more oral forms of the
language. (or in diminutive luitjes). </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Professions ending in
-man take (officially) plurals in -lui or -lieden. 1 koopman, meerdere
kooplieden (/kooplui), brandweerman, brandweerlieden/lui. </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">To me it
doesn't sound strange saying "timmermannen" or "brandweermannen"
though. But you're not allowed to write it anyway:) [and usually the
latter are called "pompiers" [pOm'pI.jrs] in these districts anyway]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
And I just noticed that apparently Dutch is the only
Germanic/W.European language that does not use the latin word "muscle"
but "spier". Anyone knows other Germanic languages that use a more
"original" word? </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Diederik</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">