<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 08 January 2008 - Volume 03
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">
<a href="mailto:foga0301@stcloudstate.edu">foga0301@stcloudstate.edu</a></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.08 (01) [E]<br><br></span><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<i><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heather
wrote</span></u></i><span style="font-size: 10pt;">: </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">'scuse
me! Have I become invisible all of a sudden? Have I changed gender?</span></p><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">That
was me 'wot wrote that'! </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heather
(miffed)</span></p>
</div>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">My apologies Heather,</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> I'm just now beginning to understand that multiple posts can
come in the same email. Paul's name was at the top of the email, so I assumed
him to be author of those words. Today, that email reads much differently to
me. I'm feeling very far away from the action being as I last visited Germany,
Holland, and the UK last in 1978 on my way between my Pakistani home and my caretaking
grandparents in the US. Europe has always been a fly-by encounter for me. I'm enjoying
the opportunity for more in-depth discussion. I need all the feedback I can
get.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><i><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Heather
then wrote</span></u></i><span style="font-size: 10pt;">: </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">…And anyone else is left floundering - filing thro' their mental
vocabulary for 'soundex' vocabulary. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Just like most of us when listening to the lyrics of modern songs
or small children when singing hymns/prayers using vocabulary that is not part
of their environment's language. …</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 80, 77);">"Our Father which art in heaven </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 80, 77);">è</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 80, 77);">
Harold be Thy name ....."</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> You're right that kids help us to revisit our traditions. Honest
mistakes become opportunities to bridge the gaps and go deeper. I was studying
German in those early traveling years and came home (to my grandfather's farm
in Nebraska-USA) after passing the third semester German exams. So naturally, I
tried to practice with my grandfather. That was the first time I experienced
the difference between Hoch and Platte. He refused to talk with me in Hoch Deutsch
and told me flatly that it wasn't "our language". I had no clue and wanted very
much to share our "Germanness" together. Since he was born in the US, perhaps
he simply couldn't speak it; but at the time, what I picked up was a more
emotional sense of difference. That silenced me. I lost my last chance to
learn from him about all that went on way back when. Remembering the past is a
complicated and often precarious process. Everyone has something to contribute.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><i><u><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Theo Homan wrote on</span></u></i><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> the "</span>hearing and reading<span style="font-size: 10pt;">" skills of foreigners:
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">…In the years I was reading
icelandic manuscripts [hundreds and hundreds of them] I more than once did better
than the icelanders had done, because -when reading- their engine of possible
meanings was at work before they had seen what was written, and the simple me
had to read very exactly [the dirty pages]…</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dialogue in the real world is often like the seemingly aimless paths
that rabbits make in a snowy meadow when the grass is all covered up. When we
finally all have our fill, it will be interesting to see what the topic
headings will be.</span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Happy Tuesday for now, </span></p>
<p style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Gael (Gabby in Spanish)</span></p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: Language varieties<br><br>Hi, Gael!<br><br>As for miffing Ze Hezzer (and, no, we don't like having miffed Hezzers around here), don't worry! We'll whip you into shape soon enough. ;-)
<br><br>In the meantime, reading the rules may help: <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/rules.php">http://lowlands-l.net/rules.php</a><br><br>Kudos to you for having gotten your feet wet right after joining! The Kahuna has been watching you and likes what he sees. (
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm">http://lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm</a>)<br><br>You wrote:<br><br></span><div style="margin-left: 40px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
That was the first time I experienced
the difference between Hoch and Platte. He refused to talk with me in Hoch Deutsch
and told me flatly that it wasn't "our language". I had no clue and wanted very
much to share our "Germanness" together. Since he was born in the US, perhaps
he simply couldn't speak it; but at the time, what I picked up was a more
emotional sense of difference. That silenced me. I lost my last chance to
learn from him about all that went on way back when. Remembering the past is a
complicated and often precarious process. Everyone has something to contribute.</span><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>Yippee! I've heard a lot of rumors about this, but so far all reports were second- and third-hand. I need to hear more, so I hope you don't mind me grilling you on this once in a while.
<br><br>While Low Saxon speakers that stayed in Germany had no choice, and even the staunchest among them eventually succumbed to Germanization and to the myth that "Platt" is a German dialect group, those that left for the "New" World did have a choice (and I wonder if some of them emigrated for this reason). I am told that especially many of those that emigrated with other Low Saxon speakers or congregated with them overseas tended to end up with Low Saxon alongside English, often without German playing any role. It was only in communities in which there was a predominance of German speakers and German served as prestige and church language that Low Saxon vanished. Apparently whole villages or parts of villages came to be transplanted across the Atlantic, especially many from what is now Schleswig-Holstein, historically the least German-loyal state, having been under Danish rule for quite some time.
<br><br>It is this way that American-specific dialects of Low Saxon were able to develop, some of them since way back in the early part of the 19th century, if not even earlier. The language was strong enough at one time that even American Low Saxon literature began to emerge, producing American patriotic songs among other things.
<br><br>(<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/groth/chicago.htm">http://lowlands-l.net/groth/chicago.htm</a>)<br><br>The American/Schleswig-Holstein Heritage Society is a great resource: <br><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm#ASHHS">
http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm#ASHHS</a><br><br>Other organizations:<br><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm">http://lowlands-l.net/plattewelt/platt-namerica.htm</a><br><br>Gael, I started a fundamental reference grammar some time ago:
<a href="http://lowlands-l.net/grammar/">http://lowlands-l.net/grammar/</a><br><br>I am currently reworking and extending it. Eventually there will be sounds and lessons as well.<br><br>Kumpelmenten,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br>
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