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<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 18 January 2008 - Volume 02
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">
Wesley Parish</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:wes.parish@paradise.net.nz">wes.parish@paradise.net.nz</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Names" 2008.01.18 (05) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
On Saturday 19 January 2008 08:20, Lowlands-L List wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><snip></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">> The words "Waal" and "Walloon" mean "stranger", so I'm not so fond of this<br>> word for the linguistic status of the southern half of Belgium; it neglects
<br>> the regional languages spoken there, and it reduces Romance inhabitants of<br>> the Lowlands as "strangers"<br><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Does this have any relation to the Dutch river called Waal? I've got
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Dutch-Australian relatives with de Waal as their surname, and am wondering if</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">it was an important boundary at some point or other.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">
<br>> Reinhard you wrote,<br>><br>> It is true that *Waal* etc. has been variously interpreted as "stranger."<br>> The other, probably original and remaining meaning is something like<br>> "Romance-speaking" from "Romance-speaking Celtic." The group of names is
<br>> related to "Gaul," "Gallic," "Gaelic," "Wales," "Welsh," *welsch*,<br>> *Wallis*; cf. French *gallois* for 'Welsh'. In this sense I don't see<br>> anything negative in it, but perhaps it's different for Dutch speakers.
<br>> Large tracts of formerly Celtic-speaking Europe became Romance-speaking,<br>> and Germanic speakers therefore identified any Romance variety (practically<br>> all of which had Celtic substrata) as "Welsh." It was only later that this
<br>> name came to be extended to mean "others" and "gobbledigook" ( e.g. German<br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">> *Kauderwelsch*).</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><snip></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">> ----------<br>><br>
> From: Luc Hellinckx <<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>><br>> Subject: LL-L "Names"<br>><br>> Beste Ron,<br>><br>> You wrote:<br>><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
> 1. It is true that *Waal* etc. has been variously interpreted as</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="Ih2E3d">> "stranger." The other, probably original and remaining meaning is
<br>> something like "Romance-speaking" from "Romance-speaking Celtic." The group<br>> of names is related to "Gaul," "Gallic," "Gaelic," "Wales," "Welsh,"
<br>> *welsch*, *Wallis*; cf. French *gallois* for 'Welsh'. In this sense I don't<br>> see anything negative in it, but perhaps it's different for Dutch speakers.<br>> Large tracts of formerly Celtic-speaking Europe became Romance-speaking,
<br>> and Germanic speakers therefore identified any Romance variety (practically<br>> all of which had Celtic substrata) as "Welsh." It was only later that this<br>> name came to be extended to mean "others" and "gobbledigook" (
e.g. German<br>> *Kauderwelsch*).<br>><br>> The troubled relationship between the (Western) Flemish and the French is<br>> old. During the battle of the Guldensporenslag (in 1302), the slogan<br>> already was: "Wat walsch is, valsch is. Slaet al dood."
<br>> (freely translated: What is welsh, is false. Slay all)<br>><br>> I'm not a historian, but I have the impression that these<br>> anti-French/Francophone feelings have always been a lot more intense in
<br>> Flanders than they were in the center of the country. Maybe this originated<br>> in the County of Flanders being a fief of the French king, whereas the<br>> Duchy of Brabant was part of the Holy Roman Empire. Maybe, maybe, maybe it
<br>> even goes further back to a Saxon/Frankish divide, where the French king<br>> was viewed as heir to the Frankish warlords.<br>><br>> Franks, in turn, can also be seen as "strangers" of course, just look at
<br>> the Thai word "farang", for a Westerner and Persian "farangi" for a<br>> non-muslim.<br><br></div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In Thailand it would derive from the troubled relations between the Thai
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">kingdom and the French Republic/Empire during the nineteenth century, the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">century when they tightened their grip on Indo-China aka Laos, Cambodia and</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Vietnam.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In Persian it would derive from the Arabic "franj" which dates back to the
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Crusades and the Normans who led them - in spite of the fact that the Frnech</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">were a percentage of the Crusaders, and the Normans didn't consider</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
themselves "French" at that time - for quite some time the question seemed to</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">be whether it was the French Kings who were Norman vassals or vice versa and
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">the Hundred Years War can also be viewed from that perspective.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Wesley Parish</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">--</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">-----</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla</span>
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">warfare means up to their monkey tricks.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">of the foolish.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">-----</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">You ask, what is the most important thing?</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
•
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