<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 25 January 2008 - Volume 03</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Joachim Kreimer-de Fries</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:Kreimer@jpberlin.de">Kreimer@jpberlin.de</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Phonology" 2008.01.24 (04) [E/G]<br><br></span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
Leywe James, Hey altohaup,</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">thank you for supporting my investigation!</div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div>24.01.2008 <span style="color: rgb(47, 101, 36);">James Ward <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">:</span></span></div><br><blockquote type="cite"> Note too that these<br>
examples from Niblett that you quote (below) all seem to contain front <br>vowels, which indicates to me that we are probably dealing here with a<br>palatal spirant, close to English "y"/German (etc.) "j".</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>close yes, but more behind, velar - with changing location according to the environment, and voiced.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">at the _Emsländische Grammatik_ at<br><br><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=i6NMAAAAMAAJ" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=i6NMAAAAMAAJ </a><br>
<br>On page 16 we have an explicit association of the symbol "ʒ" with a<br>velar sound: "Der velare Engelaut g (ʒ) ist zwischen Sonorlauten in<br>verschiedenen Wörtern im emsl. stimmhaft, im ling. (wie auch im mstl. <br>
und osn.) stimmlos.</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So now I don't know what to think anymore.</blockquote><div>According
the the Osnabrück-born and grown Linguist Niblett, Mr. Schönhoff
(Emsländische Grammatik) seens to have acted amiss writing that the <span style="line-height: 16px;"><font style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" size="4">g (ʒ) would be voiceless in Osna-Sassisk/-Westphalian.</font></span></div>
<blockquote type="cite">Anyway, this Emsländische Grammatik seems to be an interesting book.</blockquote><div>Niblett referred to it <span style="color: rgb(71, 80, 139);">appreciately regarding the development of the middelsaxon sounds.</span></div>
<blockquote type="cite">You might want to compare some of the phonological information <br>available on pages 35, 156 ff, and perhaps others. </blockquote>Yes
sure, I'd read these and other pages and paragraphs in building my
assumption on the meaning of Niblett's [ʒ] - Actually I have an
original volume of the "Emsländische Grammatik" at the disposal from
the German public library system.<span style="line-height: 16px;"></span></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Anyway,
meanwhile I got perhaps also the final answer to my question from which
phonological writing system Niblett's [ʒ] should be derived. It came
to-day from Olaf Bordasch, who from time to time looks in the LL-L
archive. Referring to "Die Soester Mundart, Laut- und Formenlehre nebst
Texten" von Ferdinand Holthausen (1886)" the [ʒ]-similar sign it is
part of the </div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">phonological system "Theutonista", </div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">formerly
broadly in use, at least in Germany, and represents a "Guttural" (but
velar seems to me more exactly from Niblett). Holthausen writes: "These
are [χ] and [ʒ], the first = ch in ach, the latter the according voiced sound with weak friction noise". Thanks to Olaf Bordasch as well!</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
As far as I understand the IPA description and the audio-demonstration this is exactly IPA [ɣ], SAMPA G.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
More
over, coming back to my supposedly Westphalian confrere Jan Strunks, I
think that the prononciation of G, also in the middle of words as
friggen or egger, had been velar-fricative in all or most Westphalian
dialects, not only in the prince-bishopric of Osnabrück. But
unfurtunately, the original pronunciation dwindelt away under Standard
German (and - less guilty - North Saxon) influence.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">But regarding the other Westphalian Saxon dialects this is only my vague hypothesis.</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Goutgoun!</div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><div>Joachim Kreimer-de Fries</div>
</font><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">p.s.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">More about Westphalian Saxon:</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font><a href="http://home.wxs.nl/%7Eobd/obo/platt/ned.htm" target="_blank">http://home.wxs.nl/~obd/obo/platt/ned.htm</a></font></div><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">----------</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">From: R. F. Hahn <</span><a style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
sassisch@yahoo.com</a><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Subject: Phonology</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br>
<br>Joachim coined a new name above: </span><span style="line-height: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><font style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" size="4">Osna-Sassisk</font></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br>That's funny! It's mixed German-Saxon. If it were all based on Low Saxon it would have to be <i>Ossensassisk</i> "Oxen Saxon," since the local Low Saxon name for </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Osnabrück is something like </span><i style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ossenbrügge</i><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> ("Oxen Bridge," "Oxbridge").<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span>