<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">L O W L A N D S - L - 30 January 2008 - Volume 05</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">=========================================================================</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(121, 6, 25);">Denis Dujardin</span> <span class="lDACoc"><<a href="mailto:dujardin@pandora.be">dujardin@pandora.be</a>></span></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (04) [E]<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
In Westflemish (Kortrijks) we have the same feature. </span><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">One says "ne mannemins" ("a man-man" "ein Man-Mensch). The gender is masculin</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">But the female "een vro-mins" ( a women-man, ein Weib-mensch), the gender here, is neuter.</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The suprising thing is, that the female is objectivated as being "neuter".</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Historical Sexism? (:))</div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Denis Dujardin</div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><div>Op 31-jan-08, om 19:35 heeft Lowlands-L List het volgende geschreven:</div><div><div><span id="q_117d13c7b02e4c6c_1" class="WQ9l9c">- Show quoted text -</span></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><blockquote type="cite">From: <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 104, 28);">Luc Hellinckx</span> <span><<a href="mailto:luc.hellinckx@gmail.com" target="_blank">luc.hellinckx@gmail.com</a>></span></span><br>
Subject: <span>LL-L "Etymology"<br><br></span> Beste Ingmar,<br> <br> You wrote: <br> <blockquote type="cite">Something I always stroke me as funny is the North Brabant expression:<br> <div> <div> <div>"mens" lit. human being, in the sense of husband, in Dutch just "man".<br>
</div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> Southern Brabantish sometimes uses "mens" for wife, but then it gets neuter gender:<br> <br> "Da mens èè noeët ni vööl van eul lèève g'ad" (the poor lass had a tough life)<br>
<br>
I think such usage can also be observed elsewhere though, and generally
wants to evoke compassion (in lieu, you could also hear "da schààp").<br> <br> Kind greetings,<br> <br> Luc Hellinckx<br><br>----------<br><br>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Etymology<br><br>Hey, Luc and Ingmar,<br><br>It's very similar in Low Saxon dialects of Germany.<br> <ul><li><i>dey minsch</i> <i>(de Minsch</i>) 'the human being', 'the person' - pronoun <i>hey</i> (<i>he</i>) 'he' (masculine)</li>
<li><i>et/it/dat minsch</i> (<i>et/it/</i><i>dat Minsch</i>) 'the woman' (pejorative) - pronoun <i>et ~ it ~ dat</i> 'it' (neuter)</li></ul>But
the latter is quite negative, pretty much like "the b..." or "the piece
of work" (in reference to a woman). It carries "despicable" with it.<br><br>Regards,<br>Reinhard/Ron<br></blockquote></div></div></div><font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" color="#888888"><br>
<div> <span style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div>
<i style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Denis Dujardin</span></i></div><div><i style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Omgevingen</span></i></div><div><i style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><a href="mailto:dujardin@pandora.be" target="_blank">dujardin@pandora.be</a></span></i></div>
<div><i style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><a href="http://www.denisdujardin.be/" target="_blank">www.denisdujardin.be</a></span></i></div></span></span></div></font><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br>
----------<br><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <<a href="mailto:ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL">ingmar.roerdinkholder@WORLDONLINE.NL</a>></span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe">L</span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (04) [E]</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" class="HcCDpe"><br></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Actually, dear Luc, "dat mens" is standard Dutch for "that woman" in the</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Netherlands, too.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">In Standard Dutch, Reinhard, "de mens" means man, as in mankind, as in:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">De mens kwam in Amerika aan via de Bering-straat, i.e. man reached America</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">through Bering Strait. "Het mens" is one individual human being, both man</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">or woman, but it can also mean "woman" in a more negative or endearing</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">sense. But in the special North Brabant dialect expression "munne mens" it</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">means my husband.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Ingmar</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Luc Hellinckx schreef:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Beste Ingmar,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">You wrote:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Something I always stroke me as funny is the North Brabant expression:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"mens" lit. human being, in the sense of husband, in Dutch just "man".</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Southern Brabantish sometimes uses "mens" for wife, but then it gets neuter</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">gender:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">"Da mens èè noeët ni vööl van eul lèève g'ad" (the poor lass had a tough</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">life)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I think such usage can also be observed elsewhere though, and generally</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">wants to evoke compassion (in lieu, you could also hear "da schààp").</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Reindert schreef:</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Hey, Luc and Ingmar,</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">It's very similar in Low Saxon dialects of Germany.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> - *dey minsch* *(de Minsch*) 'the human being', 'the person' - pronoun</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> *hey* (*he*) 'he' (masculine)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> - *et/it/dat minsch* (*et/it/**dat Minsch*) 'the woman' (pejorative) -</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> pronoun *et ~ it ~ dat* 'it' (neuter)</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">But the latter is quite negative, pretty much like "the b..." or "the piece</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">of work" (in reference to a woman). It carries "despicable" with it.</span><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">
<br style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">